V2R Quad/Vehicle Incident

J Prich

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Is this safe to discuss or no? Seems like it's kind of comm out on this deal but normally this kind of thing would lead to some kind of discussion, particularly in light of the implementation of the new safety warning devices.
 

ndvalium

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Is this safe to discuss or no? Seems like it's kind of comm out on this deal but normally this kind of thing would lead to some kind of discussion, particularly in light of the implementation of the new safety warning devices.
I see many opportunities for improvement always in this sport so I welcome the discussion.

The catalyst of this discussion obviously being what occurred this weekend with Alex / Quad 450 and Cole Potts in his TT. But let me put some rumors to rest that I have seen the last couple days. Keep in mind there are only three people that witnessed what happened and one of those has zero memory of the event.

The Potts TT struck a quad in the rear as it pulled back onto course after reportedly yielding to another TT. The quad had his tracker / pass alert on his quad although it will never be known if he got notification of the truck coming.

Cole and his co-driver stayed on scene along with several other teams until Alex was air lifted to me back to 251 to treat and transfer to a medical helicopter. Cole then continued on and turned the vehicle over to Robby at the next pit.

Alex has a very long road to recovery but appears that he will not need any surgery despite several back fractures, rib fractures, two bleeds in his head and a broken scapula. Undoubtedly, the helmet (which stayed in tact) contributed in saving his life.

***NOTE*** all of this information has been released by the family on numerous social media outlets and is no longer protected information.

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Ok all that being said-

I know many will offer the different days, different races suggestion in the situation- from my side, while I am not opposed to that in any way, I am interested in hearing some out of the box suggestions for Solutions in this.




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J Prich

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Thanks for the input. Based on a lot of second and third hand info it sounded like it was a pretty serious incident that could have been even worse so happy to hear that in spite of the carnage, the rider is on the road (albeit long road) to recovery.

Just seems like a significant incident and the kind of thing everyone has been trying relatively hard to avoid. I heard a few TT guys anecdotally saying they seemed to catch a lot of bikes and quads pretty early on...maybe that's always the case but I wonder if the start gap is still not big enough?
 

deano

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Glad to hear the report that Cole had stopped where early other reports out there were saying that he didn't .. Props to them and hope for a speedy recovery to the quad rider .. Also God Speed to Combat Veteran Chris Carlisle who's life was taken en-route to Reno inside the Red Bull helo after crashing on his dirt bike at RM290 ..... :(
 
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frozenh2o

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Increasing the start gap would be a good thing. As an expert quad, we started nearly last and got off the line at about 6:35 am. That's less than 3 hours before the first truck. We had a fast, trouble-free race, won our class with a great time of 11:44, but the lead trophy truck was less than 15 minutes behind us at the finish...
 

J Prich

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Potts Instagram shows Robby getting into the truck in the middle of the desert. Looks like they had a BLM escort. I'd imagine Cole was pretty shaken up. Glad to hear the rider survived.
Yeah bad deal for everyone involved and really these kinds of things, when they go really really bad, have the potential to affect the sport as a whole. Hopefully it's the kind of thing that folks can look at and find ways to continue to improve racer safety.
 

y2kbaja

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Note: At pit 12 the first bike was 32 minutes early and the first TT was 43 minutes early. This is based on the BITD arrival times posted.
 

az_amsoil

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While not entirely fair, there should be mandatory course options that remove the ATV/motos from the main course when the TT are say 50-100 miles out. There should also be revised time limits based on overall pace. I understand the logistics of not being able to run a separate moto/atv race, but at some point you've got to keep these guys removed from 6,000+ pounds of 120MPH vehicles. The whole, "well don't drive blind in the dust" argument is mute when you have motos/atv pulling out into dust. Keep'em separate and if there is a possibility they will be caught, create alternate lines that not only keeps the course separate, but also cuts miles away to keep them in front of the danger.
 

firedog

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I see many opportunities for improvement always in this sport so I welcome the discussion.

I know many will offer the different days, different races suggestion in the situation- from my side, while I am not opposed to that in any way, I am interested in hearing some out of the box suggestions for Solutions in this.
Sent from my iPhone using race-deZert mobile app
Just trying to think "outside of the box", here it goes:
Any Moto/Quad team that is caught by a 4 wheel vehicle is race over! Proceed with caution to the next pit and get off the course! The contact with 2 vs 4 wheel is happening way too often! Here are a couple of thoughts....

Pro Moto/Quad teams start out front with a 3-5hr gap, maybe start them in the dark for a hour or so? Give them a wider gap! Give them a chance to rerun what they will be racing in the dark, first 60-80 miles or so. Give all the sportsman Moto/Quad teams a choice...Start with the gap, but any Moto/Quad that caught by the lead 4 wheel vehicle your race is over, proceed with caution to the next pit and get off the course, you are done!

OR

Start the sportsman Moto/Quad guys 5hrs after the last 4 wheel vehicle leaves the line?

OR

Start Moto/Quads as normal with a normal time gap BUT have all Moto/Quad teams qualify prior to event. If you do not finish qualifying within a specified time you do not start the race.
Again flame away with your opinions!

OR

Moto/Quads race on the day prior or the day after to eliminate the possibility of a 4 wheel race vehicle on the course at the same time.

Just a few thoughts, what is your choice if your a Moto/Quad team?? Flame a-way but just trying to come up with some solutions!
 

Capt223

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In the past, has starting the quads and bikes in the back been discussed? BITD is a very experienced organization, so there must be a good reason for putting them in front of the trucks. Interested to understand what the past experience has been with that idea.
 

J Prich

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While not entirely fair, there should be mandatory course options that remove the ATV/motos from the main course when the TT are say 50-100 miles out. There should also be revised time limits based on overall pace. I understand the logistics of not being able to run a separate moto/atv race, but at some point you've got to keep these guys removed from 6,000+ pounds of 120MPH vehicles. The whole, "well don't drive blind in the dust" argument is mute when you have motos/atv pulling out into dust. Keep'em separate and if there is a possibility they will be caught, create alternate lines that not only keeps the course separate, but also cuts miles away to keep them in front of the danger.
Im sure the logistics of a separate course or whatever are difficult if not impossible, but I agree with the notion that at some point the bike/quad vs truck/car thing is going to yield a tragic outcome and it's going to have huge implications for our sport. I think PAB discussed this stuff at length when something similiar to this happened at a race a year or three back but it seems that this convo never moves past the "good ideas" stage and I worry that one day the failure to implement a real solution is going to come back and bite us all.
 

MTBrider

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Just trying to think "outside of the box", here it goes:
Any Moto/Quad team that is caught by a 4 wheel vehicle is race over! Proceed with caution to the next pit and get off the course! The contact with 2 vs 4 wheel is happening way too often! Here are a couple of thoughts....

Pro Moto/Quad teams start out front with a 3-5hr gap, maybe start them in the dark for a hour or so? Give them a wider gap! Give them a chance to rerun what they will be racing in the dark, first 60-80 miles or so. Give all the sportsman Moto/Quad teams a choice...Start with the gap, but any Moto/Quad that caught by the lead 4 wheel vehicle your race is over, proceed with caution to the next pit and get off the course, you are done!

OR

Start the sportsman Moto/Quad guys 5hrs after the last 4 wheel vehicle leaves the line?

OR

Start Moto/Quads as normal with a normal time gap BUT have all Moto/Quad teams qualify prior to event. If you do not finish qualifying within a specified time you do not start the race.
Again flame away with your opinions!

OR

Moto/Quads race on the day prior or the day after to eliminate the possibility of a 4 wheel race vehicle on the course at the same time.
I like the idea of running the day before!
There's no way I'm forking out all that cash to go racing if my day is over as soon as I'm caught.
 

MTBrider

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If you're caught after getting a 3 hour head start, is it really considered "racing"?
Maybe not, but how many racers get to the finish without issues?
Should only the ones who have a "perfect" race be allowed to continue?
How would that play out for the future of the sport?
What would be the incentive for future racers to get involved?
 

AZ KIRBY

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Maybe have us qualify and if you can't make the qualifying cut off then you start after the 4 wheel classes


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Kolman

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Maybe not, but how many racers get to the finish without issues?
Should only the ones who have a "perfect" race be allowed to continue?
How would that play out for the future of the sport?
What would be the incentive for future racers to get involved?
With all due respect, wouldn't the incentive stay the same? Isn't the incentive winning races? Proving you're the fastest?

I feel like it would encourage a good prep, and racing a well built, stout machine, while still rewarding those who have the best day. What goes away are the stories about persevering to the finish, which I will agree is a part of desert racing I enjoy.
 

y2kbaja

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I'm ok with the "racing" to just finish guys. Do some of the TT guys lined up really think they're going to win?
 

Kritter

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I like the idea of running the day before!
There's no way I'm forking out all that cash to go racing if my day is over as soon as I'm caught.
dont get caught...its that simple. Dont fork out cash for something you can get yourself killed at if youre too slow. If you have a bad day, youre race is most likely over for winning so pack it up. Tom Malloy said it best to his son mike "we didnt come to race, we came to win, put it on the trailer and save the prep" when a slave or something took them out of contention for a 1600 shootout win. I never will forget those words.

I have no idea why some people even enter these races on bikes that are sitting down at mile 15 and getting passed by trophy trucks at halfway...complete idiots. They're not only putting their lives in danger, they are putting drivers in danger trying to not hit them.
 

MTBrider

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What goes away are the stories about persevering to the finish, which I will agree is a part of desert racing I enjoy.
Totally agree. Persevering is an important aspect to preserve in this sport. Not everyone can win, but the adventure is a big part of the allure.

I also do not want to see the barrier to entry raised so high that only big money / Pro teams can race. As the 4 wheel classes get faster and faster, pulling 2 wheelers out of the race when they're caught will result in none of them finishing eventually. If the grassroots or lower budget teams have no chance of being allowed to finish, I predict participation will evaporate.
 
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