VW bug trans + 1

rotkiv001

Well-Known Member
..I hope someone can help me with the following...

I have a 5/1600 w/ 930cv/s and + 1 rear traling arms, I took it today to the fab shop
to install rear torsion adjuster, and they strongly recomended me to move the trany and the engine +1'' so the Flange and the CV's matched the same distance...

is this ok? s this SCORE Legal?

would you recomend it??

thanks for your help

v celis
 

loose_nut

Well-Known Member
the only thing that is usually changed is the inclination of the trans/motor i don't think they get moved back. you might want to check with other shops, other opinions can be helpful. they probably want to move it back to keep the flanges in line so that you can keep as much droop as possible. cv angles are not just up and down but front and back. both angles must be calculated to set the cvs. i think 930's max at 27 degrees, if your axles are 4 degrees forward you can only go down 23. i think this is what they are telling you.
 

Gonzo 5/1600

Well-Known Member
You can drop the engine/trans so that the CVs sit in clearanced frame horns but movement of the drivetrain beyond that is not mentioned in SCORE rules, and since it's a limited class if the book doesn't say you can do it, then you can't...

Hope this helps!
 

rotkiv001

Well-Known Member
...they recomend to move the trany back by one inch
that way the trany flange and the stub axel will be in a
straight line.
right now the stub axel is one inch back than the flange (stock)

thanks for your help...
 
You can move the trany forwards or backwards as much as you would like - nothing in the rules to stop you. The questions is where is the best place for it to be. If this is a 5-1600 with stock frame horns then you wnat the trany as low as you can get it - this is where the rules come into play. You are only allowed to dish out the rear horns to the seam to clearance for the CVs - that is what you should do. As far a front to back location goes; you want the centerline of the inboard and outboard CVs to be in line at full droop (max CV angle) at that point. When the axle is level the inboard CV will be forward of the outboard CV.

If you do move your trany, the other thing to consider is the trany (and engine) inclination. Get a Fab shop that knows what they are doing on 5-1600s, not just a Fab shop. There are some tricks to consider when installing the adjusters as well.
 

Gonzo 5/1600

Well-Known Member
Well, while I've seen many 5/1600 cars that have repositioned their engine/trans in various configuations for differnt reasons the rules do not list engine position as "open" in our class therefore it must remain in the stock location (other than dropping for CV into horn clearance). It may be an accepted practice but it's treading into grey areas.

Ramsey is correct on the technical benefits but the book is more restrictive in how it is written.
 

rotkiv001

Well-Known Member
..thanks for your tips, i'll talk to the guy and make shure he knows whats he is doing,

by the way whats the recomended inclination for the transmission / engine, more inclination = better or less inclination?

tahnks..
 
Well, while I've seen many 5/1600 cars that have repositioned their engine/trans in various configuations for differnt reasons the rules do not list engine position as "open" in our class therefore it must remain in the stock location (other than dropping for CV into horn clearance). It may be an accepted practice but it's treading into grey areas.

Ramsey is correct on the technical benefits but the book is more restrictive in how it is written.
You are absolutly corect. Engine location is not open. That said, the amount of repositioning we are talking about is minimumal give all the other restrictions that force the engine to be in its "stock" location because what it is bolted to is in the stock location as well.
 

mexracer10

Well-Known Member
well Ramsey what other little tricks are you reffering to when it comes to installing the t-adjusters? :)
 

partybarge_pilot

Well-Known Member
by the way whats the recomended inclination for the transmission / engine, more inclination = better or less inclination?
It's pretty easy to figure out, once you drop the transmission down to where it needs to be, tilt it forward till the bottom of the front of the transmission is level with the ring gear housing.
 

rotkiv001

Well-Known Member
since i started this post my 5/1600 is still on the shop....

Everything started with the istallation of the rear torsion adjuster, we tried to fit it in but it didnt fit, so we moved the transmision back 1" and lowered as much as posible,
we had to change all the transmision mounts and the rear bumper also the tubes were the transmision sits were polished to get more travel, then because of that, we had to change the rear shocks mounts, and to get more travel we changed all the spirng plate configuration....

by the end of the day we had arround 15'' wheel travel wich is a lot, i dont know why but if we move up the wheel with a jack from the normal drivig position and up it travels 15''......

any more tips??????


tahnsk for your help
 

NIKAL

Well-Known Member
Im trying to figure out how you moved the trans back 1 inch without adding 1 inch to the rear of the torsion horns? If you have done this you might want to call Bill Savage and make sure what you are doing is legal. I have been around a few 5/1600 and I have yet seen anyone need to push the trans back to clear a torsion adjuster.

Also having the trailing arm 1 inch back does not hurt anything. Like Ramsey said you want to see the axles center at full droop as this will give you the max cv angle. Look at class 1 and 10 cars, the axle angle is a few inches back.
 

powerbox_builder

Well-Known Member
There is no "stock" location for a bus transmission in a beetle, cause it never happened stock, so like Ramsey said its kinda open. But I can tell you you can't get the transmission far enough forward in a 5/1600. The nose cone should rest against the torsion adjuster, no mount no studs. That will get your axle geometry as close to correct as it can be
 

rotkiv001

Well-Known Member
Im trying to figure out how you moved the trans back 1 inch without adding 1 inch to the rear of the torsion horns? If you have done this you might want to call Bill Savage and make sure what you are doing is legal. I have been around a few 5/1600 and I have yet seen anyone need to push the trans back to clear a torsion adjuster.

Also having the trailing arm 1 inch back does not hurt anything. Like Ramsey said you want to see the axles center at full droop as this will give you the max cv angle. Look at class 1 and 10 cars, the axle angle is a few inches back.

What are the torsion horns?? are those the to tubes where the transmission sits? if so
we just added a 1'' spacer to the horns...
 
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