wemo meeting

martininsocal

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2 big wemo meetings this wednesday in v-ville. wemo group 1 at 9:00 at the green tree and group 2 at 6:00 at the ramada across the freeway. these rae the final meetings before the public release of the plan. CBD was at the last meeting griping about all the trails left open. we will need some numbers to counterbalance their attack thiss week.

martin

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Paige

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Martin and I were at the task group 2 meeting last night - and martin also attended task group one where the turtle guy - dropped a bomb asking for a lot more area and also the elimination of all competitive and noncompetative motorized events in the Tortoise areas to reduce dust I believe.

Martin can chime in more on that as I don't have a copy of the proposal he passed out.

Scoping meetings for the West Mojave plan are coming up in June - WE HAVE TO MAKE A PRESENCE at these meetings. We won't have the numbers that the glamis meetings pulled so we need to make a concerted effort to attend.

The meeting dates are tenative as this point - once we get official dates and places we'll let you know - but I have a feeling they are going to wait so people have less time to plan.

At this point the first is at the Green Tree Inn in Victorville on 6/4, Lone Pine 6/5, Ridgecrest 6/5 then i thought they said Pasadena, San Bernardino and one other I believe Palmdale is the week of the 17th -

According to Martin the turtle guy announced yesterday that they intend to sue over the plan!

<font color=yellow>Paige<font color=yellow>
 

Mike_McCluskey

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If they intend on bringing a lawsuit against the plan, where do they get their money to finance these suits? Are they getting grant money from the gov and using it to sue the gov? How about a counter suit for wasting taxpayers money frivalously(sp?) without substantiating their claims. It gets old hearing about every time they don't get their way they sue. There has to be a way to start returning the favor....
 

Paige

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They are backed by the CBD - that is where the money is coming from and that is who is bringing the suit. As far as frivilous suits - good point - don't know the answer to that one though! But why waste all this time to do a plan that is supposed to encompass the tortoise and all users of the desert and then just decide to sue cause they didn't close everything - whiners!

<font color=yellow>Paige<font color=yellow>
 

martininsocal

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ok- first some meeting info- mike connors, phd from the tortoise conservation group, a private tortoise lovers group who pays his wages, submitted, on the last day, a proposal that was accepted into the permanent record of the wemo plan, his groups recommendations for tortoise preservation. these include, an end to all organized motor vehicle events in all tortoise areas (speed and non-speed events) and gave a few open ended requests that included the end of all human activity that MAY have a detrimental effect on tortoises. when asked to define what human activity this included, ofcourse the biggy was all vehicle use, period. it seems that now dust, yes dust, is killing the tortoises. when asked if we should stop the wind also, he said if that was possible.
it has been found that the tortoises that are dieing out at the tortoise preserve near cal city(where no offroad vehicle use is aloud on the 29,000 acres) have high levels of heavy metals found in their livers upon autopsy. after 8 years of dust monitoring, they have not been able to pinpoint where the heavy metals are coming from, but they still want to balme it on dust, of which motorcycles, quads, and cars are the major supplier. hense the request for no dust.
when asked what additions or deletions to the conservations areas should be considered, mr. connor said he would like everything east of hy 14 closed to vehicle use and designated closed, critical habitat. i think you are getting the picture here. when the biologist for the blm(someone who themselves has said they should eliminate vehicles from all tortoise habitat) presented the plan for cattle grazing which implemmented no new allotments and attempts to eliminate old allotments through a voluntary buyout program, also requiring no grazing in years when plant growth fell below average levels, mr. connors said that the plan was unacceptable, asked if the solicitor(the cbd) had seen the plan, then stated "the plan will never see the street". they plan on sueing to prevent implementation of the plan so more emergency closures can occur while this thing is tied up in court for another decade. it has appeared for a while this has been their strategy all along. they have been taking notes and confirming anything they feel theycan go back to the judge with to say the blm is not doing all it can to protect the species named in the CBD suit.
i personally felt that progress was being made after all the frustrating months prior to the vehicle route plan finally taking shape. at the meeting where the decision tree for route designation was released, we saw a little of the extemism of the CBD come out showing their true agenda. at the task group 1 meeting yeaterday, i watched the wheels come off the cart because the extremists on the environmental side showed they have no desire to compromise, and they will continue to sue until they get their way, period. public input is not important, only the goal of controlling the types of recreation allowed on public lands is.
now, where do they get the money to file these lawsuits? well, when mr. clinton was in office, there was a rules change enacted(and heavily supported by al goregasm) that requires the federal gov't to pay all the legal costs of the lawsuits filed on behalf of species listed as threatened or endangered. so if a group files a suit on behalf of the sabertooth wooly crotch cricket, and a judge determines that it does in deed need more help than what is already being provided by the federal gov't, or the case is settled prior to going to court(like the cbd case) then these groups get to bill the gov't for their costs! they make money filing these suits. the previous presidential office made sure there were plenty of settlements before a judge saw the case, so these groups made lots of tax dollars appear in their pockets. and it is all legal! this is why it is imperative that when you hear or see these suits coming, you call your elected representatives and tell them you want the case to go to trial, not settled. these groups sue with the intent on the other side caving and agreeing to a settlement with a partial closure and loss of rights instead of gambling on the whole thing. kinda like sueing in small claims court for 5000 dollars for a jacket that got damaged at the cleaners, you know the jacket is worth that much, and you know the judge knows the jacket isn't worth that much, but you are hoping for a settlement of a judgement that will get you more than the jacket is worth.
it is important that your comments are sent in to oppose some parts of the plan. you will have an oppurtunity to see the plans at the scoping meetings. we are trying hard to have some offroaders at every scoping meeting to help explain what you are seeing, what you may want to oppose or support, and answer any questions you may have about how decissions were made. you can email me for any specifics you may have and i will try to answer your questions.

martin

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Wayne_Nosala

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Martin,
This may be a real stupid reason the tortoises have such a high
metal content in them, but the hills around the Cal City/ Rand Mountain area
are full of different metals,... so much metal,... some of the hills are colored (green
ones are copper, some are Red, i think maybe iron) There was a lot of mining going on
in the early 1900s for these metals along with Silver & Gold, there are tailings from these
mines everyware out there thus the turtles may be ingesting these metels somehow themselves
even in the preserve where there is no vehecal access

Are these So-called eco-scientist checking out these possibilities before they just assume
OHV use is the only thing to blame on the demise of the turtles?

Wayne
 

Paige

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Wayne,

Mike Conner and the biologist for the BLM admitted at that meeting that after the areas are closed they are not doing any studies to determine if the closure is in fact helping the species to recover, claiming that it takes x amount of years to determine recovery rates, but in the interim they have determined that closing the land to vehicles will help no matter what according to conner, though there is no real proof to his claim.

In the paper that he handed out during the group 1 meeting he admits to the fact that predation and disease are the #1 killers of the "critter" as one guy calls them, but when asked point blank by martin that is that is the problem then why close the areas to vehicles, mining and grazing he hemmed and hawwed and danced around the question.

<font color=yellow>Paige<font color=yellow>
 

martininsocal

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wayne- someone else brought up the point about red mtn and why it is red mountain(lots or arsenic...hhmmmmm). and guess what? red mtn is included in the tortoise recovery areas! even though it is a giant mountain of poison. it is notabout the tortoise, it is about the ability to regulate your recreation, period. the majority of closures will do nothing to ensure that tortoise will recover. in fact, this plan does not even allow tortoises rescued from some place else to be ploaced in the tortoise recovery areas. they will go to 1 of 2 places outside th erecovery areas, and my guess is, the econazis will then ask for those areas to be closed!

If your gonna go, go BIG
 
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