What do we have to do to get turbos legal?

[geoff]

I have talked to a few guys who race on here and one thing that comes up is why arent turbochargers legal? A properly designed turbo system will weigh less than a bigger engine, have a better powerband, be more fuel efficient, more tunable, etc.

it just seems fiar that if a 4 cyl has to race 6 cyl trucks, they have turbos... just a thought.

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka

 

[ESB4130]

i agree. i think that there should be a turbo 4cyl class. or just a turbo class altogather. i understand that alot of the classes wouldnt want to deal with turbos and stuff..but if they let us have one class for turbos and whatnot i think it would be really interesting. id sign up.

 

[Kritter]

1450 is your class...or run a diesel!

Kris
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.barneysprecision.com/fabproducts.htm> Fab Parts</A>

 

[slimjim]

i think it's a good thing that the existing classes stay with no turbos. except maybe trophy or class 1. if somebody wants to build a 4 cyl turbo motor to go up against them, i say go for it. or if there were enough people who really wanted to race with turbos, a new class might be a good idea.

put on your seatbelt...

 

[tedmales]

i think turbos are a good idea, but if they have a class, then why not superchargers, then why not n.o.s. it could get way complicated fast.

life is too short to be small

 

[geoff]

limit to one power adder. Anyone that runs nos is a retard, and superchargers will never touch a turbo's efficiency.

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka

 

[fox_mccloud2000]

You know what! I think your right

If the car comes with a turbo or a supercharger. I would not mind that.
But a turbo is the way to go

-matt-

 

[geoff]

well it seems that a 22r is usually the only 4 cyl used in trucks, and it did come in turbo trim, the 22RTE. However that turbo used is called a CT20 and is total trash.

Replace that with either a garret t3t4 or a shwitzer/borg warner equivalent and you could safely boost power for a very long service life at a moderate boost level.

What can ranger guys get out of their 4.0s? We could always limit turbo size, although that is barely a way to ensure no one is cheating... but it seems the playing field should be leveled a little, especially in 1450 where you are racing vehicles more than twice the displacement.

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka

 

[Jkrell]

geoff,

Keep talking - what kinda price range are we looking at for a decent 22re turbo motor. How "big" do you have to build the bottom end to make it last? What kind of head work is necessary to make it flow properly? Just curious. I think Vance and Erik have motors in the price range of around 5-6 k to build new and are geeting 200-220 hp. Where does that stack up price wise to a turbo motor? Thanks.

Jon

 

[TRDshaunTRD]

does MDR allow un-naturally aspirated motors to race 1450?

"Those who risk nothing, are nothing."

 

[Mike_HKmtrsprts]

turbos should have there own class!, but Geoff your wrong about the effienciency of a turbo that relies on exhaust gas to create boost where a supercharger is belt driven so the boost is always just a throttle pedal away if I was going to build a boost assisted motor for dirt racing I would use a roots style supercharger, I have built alot of turbo motors and they do run good and I have a turbo charged 13B mazda rotary in my sandcar now but a supercharger is way better cuz they make alot more low end torque where a turbo only makes power mid through top end due to turbo lag and yes you can run a smaller compressor wheel to counter act that but then you sacrafice the big HP numbers...Mike

<font color=red>The dump you take is the gold I make so I can afford to play and race!</font color=red>

 

[drtdevil93]

a turbo and a supercharger both make power wherever you set them up to make it. you could have your turbo hit full boost at 2000 rpm. examples: volvos new turbo motor. max torque is at 1800 rpm. saabs is about the same. also consider the torquiest motors out there: turbo diesel. a 13B is just too damn small to make torque (1.3Liter), its not because of the turbo that it doesnt have bottomend power. in terms of efficiency, a roots blower is terrible (i believe around 50% of the power made goes to turning the blower). a centrifugal supercharger is much better, about 35% of the power goes to turning it. turbochargers go as low range from 5-15%. (these are all from memory, could be a little off). think GRAND NATIONAL. just 2 weeks ago at the fontana dragstrip (which is now open on weekends, and tons of fun) the officials had to tell a guy with a grand national (which was running high 10's) to turn his AC off, cause it was dripping on the track!! the guy drove it their and back! and i know of a pinto that goes to irwindale dragstrip, drives it there and back and runs low 5's in the eighth mile. 2.3L 4cyl with LOTS of boost.

erik

 

[drtdevil93]

BTW- my motor was 6 with the whole fuel injection system, broken in, and everything. motor itself was about 4---.

erik

 

[ntsqd]

Sure that Pinto was a 2.3l ? There was a limited production turbo'd (w/ no wastegate or pop-off !) 2.0l Pinto called a "Tigra" that select dealers sold.

TS

I used swerve around my halucinations, now I drive right thru them.

 

[tedmales]

if turbos were better the top fuel drag cars would use them, but last time i looked the all had roots style superchargers.

life is too short to be small

 

[TxPhPrerunner]

Why don't top fuel cars have them? The same reason they do not use electronic fuel injection, also why NASCAR does not use electronic fuel injection, and why NASCAR does not use chromoly. Because they are outlawed by NHRA or NASCAR. Most forms of racing are not about the pure pursuit of performance but the pursuit of performance within certain rules.

I don't live on the edge. I fell over long ago.

 

[TxPhPrerunner]

I'd bet it was a 2.3. I've seen several SVO Mustang and Turbo Cupe 2.3s swapped into Pintos. I've always wondered why more people don't do that to Rangers. I think that would make a sweet setup. The TC 5sd had 205hp(easily tuned to over 250+) in 88. Take an 88 Ranger put in a TC 2.3, and there tons of options for building an 88 Ranger. But best of all for you Ca. guys, it should be a smogable swap.

I don't live on the edge. I fell over long ago.

 

[geoff]

When building the motor, it will cost barely more than a built NA motor, including the turbo. Lets take the stock toyota 22RE. This does not count for a non-efi engine, unless you convert it to efi. I have no idea how those rail guys do it, but it is possible to run boost thru a carb (just not a good idea). Head work is a great idea, but not a necessity with boost.

For a turbo motor you only need rods, pistons, head studs(not even necessary) and the turbo kit with proper fuel provisions. Some ghetto ones can work here. Use the stock cam, stock intake manifold stock valves and upgrading the valve springs is a good idea, but not absolutely necessary on low boost levels.

To build an NA motor, you get new rods and pistons, a big lift cam and heavy duty valve springs/new valves, as well as a new stroker crank (which ruins your rod to stroke ratio, increases sideloading and cylinder wall wear, decreasing ring health and engine life). Also very expensive carbs seem to be the fueling solution of choice?

With a turbo you dont need to stroke the motor, so it saves money and is easier on the engine in the higher revs. If you have the stock computer and AFM you can toy with a lot of stuff to make the system read boost and add fuel accordingly. If you have a standalone (like erik) you are already set to run boost, just put a turbo, manifold and an intercooler on and reprogram the timing maps.

I own a turbo fabrication shop, we built our own EFI system for my 22r project truck, but still using the stock ignition from the Carb setup. Soon i will go to a standalone ignition computer too, but theres just never enough time. Heres a picture of a car we recently did a turbo setup on, its the fastest honda in the country, sorry i know its not relevant i just really like it

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka

 

[prerunner68]

Try entering a race.
Im sure in the prerunner class its legal.
So quit the yapping and run them.
Better have a good air filter, radiator and inter cooler.
what a waste of thread space.

You did what to the truck?

 

[geoff]

thanks for the constructive criticism. Really, that was a huge asset to this post.

Im not a desert race, i have never even gone to a race, and you will probably never see me racing. I would just love to see some of the racers using a turbo. It seems like a waste not to embrace technology...

"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams." -- Willy Wonka