On Topic What is the current word on 5-1600 pivots?!

sailtexas186548

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Hi all,

I’ve been building a new 5-1600 for a while now, and I am building a jig to make my own rear trailing arms. I have searched and searched and searched and cannot come up with a definitive answer on the current rear pivot rules. I am talking SCORE rules.

I have the SCORE rules good through 2015, and everything I can find about this specific rule is 2015 or older information. I have always checked the online PDF rules from SCORE before I work on any part of the car, and the new rule changes since I got my rule book says the pivot can be modified +/-30° Which seems crazy.

Can someone clarify this a little bit, the way I read it is the center of the stock bolt Is a fixed point In space, and as long as the final bolt placement shares this center location and the central axis of the bolt is not more than +/-30° in any direction from the Stock bolt centerline it is legal? Basically you can’t raise, lower, or move the bolt in/out but you can orient it however you want ?

Seems like that’s a major typo, but all of the petty fighting I’ve seen about this rule online… Maybe they did this to shut everyone up? Either way it’s fine for me because I’m building new arms already LOL.

Appreciate any help, not many people to talk to out here in Houston about this stuff .

- Alex
 

R. Gross

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From what I understand is that the pivot bolts must remain in the stock locations front to rear and from side to side on each side of the tunnel. That will ensure that you are legal in length and width. Not sure on where you got your degrees from, but I do know that when fabricators are converting from the smaller shank stock bolt size that tapers down to the larger ones they rotate them a few degrees so there is zero camber or as least as possible through the full rotation of the tire from droop to fully compressed. Even thought IRS looks plumb compared to swing axle, once you increase the travel length in stock form there will be some camber changes if this adjustment is not made. Not a guru on this but that is what was explained to me on my cars. Good source for VW 5/1600 set up is Rulo at ORAF in Apple Valley Ca. Good luck.
 

sailtexas186548

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I messaged Rulo, he gave me his phone # so I will be calling him when I get a free minute from work today or tomorrow.

Here is where I got the +/-30 degrees from, direct off scores website/rules. I understand the rest of it. I was hoping it would have been corrected to stock 16* pivots to simplify it but it went the other way :eek:

score 30 degree rule.jpg
 

sailtexas186548

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spoke to Rulo yesterday, confirming what everyone does currently, but not what the RULE is.

is this class so dead that no one cares? maybe I should build for a different class?
 

R. Gross

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Class is not dead, but entries have dropped. BAP and RATR gets from 13 to 17 entries. Hard to heard the cats on a steady basis to keep the car counts up in the long course races. Rules are followed since this does not increase your length or width. The minor rotation of the pivot angles is more for just complimenting the increased wheel travel in handling and decreasing the twitch of negative camber . Bill with SNORE does a pretty close inspection at post tech to make sure the class does not move any farther out. I do not agree with what took place in the early 2000's is what I heard is someone talked the tech inspector of SCORE into that the 1600 in 5/1600 meant they could run what 1600 cars could run and forget about the remain stock clause. Since most rule books follow SCORE at the time, hence the 360 CV's, bypass shocks, power steering, micro stubs, etc. The original rule was "must remain stock unless noted within". VW's never ran any of those parts and everyone started chasing the Jones to stay competitive. Once the Jeanie was out of the bottle you could not get her back in.
I have noticed in the last few years thing have remained consistant. Easy to do since the damage was already done to the class which killed the entries. It made building a 5/1600 pretty much the same as a 1600 car. We will be putting 2 cars on the line at RATR and I will start raising some bonus money and promoting the class and shoot for 20.
 

sailtexas186548

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R. Gross, thanks for the reply. Good to hear the class isn't on life support, it's hard to get a feel for it from way out here.
 

harleys dad

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we just put our original 51600 back together for rage we built in 1977 for the then new 51600 class, this car has been threw every rule change there has been since 77 and as far as whats talked about as far as pivots put your car together put the wheels where you want them and enjoy. NNot enough cars these days to push anyone out and a degree or 2 here or there makes zero difference
 
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