What shox to buy..

Kenshiro

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Hi all..

As some of you know i`m building a race car to enter the baja 1000..It will be based on a car, the goal is to finnish the race nothing else..

Is this a good plan to know what shox to buy..

Build a-arms first, check wheeltravel and measure what lenght of shox will fit, check weight of vehicle front and rear,, then i come back with weight of car and lenght between full drop and fully compressed to see what shox to buy...


Otherwise how would you do it, if you had a vehicle but no suspension components,, where do you start to get the right shox..??

I don`t want to spend money on shox that will not work, and we don`t have this type of shox in Sweden..

Regards..

Linus..
 

Prerunin554

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Start by mocking up the suspension and mounting points for the shocks. Take a measurment at full bump and full droop and figure what ammount of travel is going to be needed. If you look at some of the maufaturers websites (King, Fox, SAW, FOA) they will have full compression and collapsed measurments for you to go off of. Yes, you will want to measure the weight of the vehicle to get the valving of the shock where you want it. Another idea is to figure out what class you will be in and talk with others in the class. You can pick up a general idea of shock size and valving you will need and can fine tune it yourself. Best of luck-
 

Kenshiro

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Start by mocking up the suspension and mounting points for the shocks. Take a measurment at full bump and full droop and figure what ammount of travel is going to be needed. If you look at some of the maufaturers websites (King, Fox, SAW, FOA) they will have full compression and collapsed measurments for you to go off of. Yes, you will want to measure the weight of the vehicle to get the valving of the shock where you want it. Another idea is to figure out what class you will be in and talk with others in the class. You can pick up a general idea of shock size and valving you will need and can fine tune it yourself. Best of luck-


Thanx,, that helps alot..

What brand is best value for the money.. Here in Sweden Fox and Öhlins is big on the snowmobile market, Öhlins makes awesome shox for all types of vehicles inkluding rallyraid cars.. But it seems King and Fox are the most common..

For a car based build, with aprox 1000kg total weight should i go with 2 shox on each side where the engine is, and one shock each side on the lighter end of the car..

Linus..
 
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racer56

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If you have a Fox dealer there, you should run fox shocks.
 

Prerunin554

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It all depends on what dealers you have, what you can afford and if they can come help you tune the shocks. I am still uncertain on what class you are running in so none of this information might not be specific to your build. On a mini-truck (4200lbs average) racers are running a coilover and bypass shock in the front and depending on rear suspension type a bypass/leaf spring or bypass/coilover. The bypass shock is important for fine tuning the ammount of bound/rebound through the travel of the shock.
 

Kenshiro

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The Fox dealers we have in Sweden don`t know anything about offroadracing cars, since we don`t have any off road racing here..

I`m ordering the score rulebook to check out some different classes. I have talked with Bill Savage about my project, and it was a green light to drive almost whatever you show up with, as long as you fulfill safety regulations.. I may be driving the race outside of competition..

But i will try to build it so it will fit in a class..

It will be a low budget build, it will not have much wheel travel, It will not be as fast as buggies with the same engine size as my vehicle,but i promise that it sure will be a one of a kind vehicle,,and i`m going to enjoy every second of driving it.

My goal is to build my own vehicle and take it from start to finnish in the Baja1000.. Building a car that will last this type of race will be tough, but the suspension is the most important thing to build tough on this type of vehicle, of course the hold build must be bulletproof, but the suspension seems to be the most iportant..

I`m going to need help with alot of questions on the way, but i hope that you understand my goals with this one.. think of it as a realy crazy idea about taking a vehicle that you normaly use when going to pick up your kids at school ( think small car ) Build it tough to run the b1k. Then you think why would anyone build a this type of vehicle. Transport it all the way from Sweden, The answer is short and simple, I want to....

Makes me smile just writing about it :)..

Thanks again for the help, it really means alot..

Linus..
 

Giant Geoff

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If it's short and light, then 1 2.5" coil over pr. wheel will work good. I always get King shock in 1 or 2 days.
 

diirk

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I think a Rally suspension system would be sufficient for your build. They're usually a coild over type with adjustable ride height, so you can tune it to your specific application. Plus, I'm sure you can find a ton of rally folks locally to help you out.
 

Kenshiro

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I think a Rally suspension system would be sufficient for your build. They're usually a coild over type with adjustable ride height, so you can tune it to your specific application. Plus, I'm sure you can find a ton of rally folks locally to help you out.

My goal is to try and build it with a little more travel. So custom a-arms will allow me
To build it with some real offroad shox.

But real rally shox probably could work to..

Thanks for the tip..
 
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I think your project idea is great, Linus. How do you plan to keep unsprung weight down in relation to sprung weight? That appears to be an important equation in successful suspension design for off road.
 

zukIzzy

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You should look into Bilstien they will surley have a dealer near you. PM Joel, his screen name is Randomthoughtsracing I think.

wayne
 

doug38s

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I know they do not have a distributor near you but you might want to take a look at www.F-O-A.com and take a look at their shocks. What you could get into for one King/Fox/Bilstein you can buy 2 FOA's for. I've been running them for two years and they work. Plus the guys that own the company are racers and passionate about the sport and their customer service is top notch.

 
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Kenshiro

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I think your project idea is great, Linus. How do you plan to keep unsprung weight down in relation to sprung weight? That appears to be an important equation in successful suspension design for off road.

Not sure i understand what you mean by that, but i will keep the geometry as it is, just beef it up and build new a-arms that are a bit longer for more travel. Then i must place the shox a bit different to where they are right now.
 

Kenshiro

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What uniball size do you recomend when building a-arms..? ( 1000 kg vehicle )

tube dimensions on a-arms and material ??

Is it possible to reinforce the original spindle by simply adding material on weak spots. Or will it get weaker when welding on the spindle, i dont know what material it`s made from but it looks like all other spindles, and what material should i use??

It`s a budget build, so if it`s possible i want to use standard materials,If it`s neccesary with for example chromemoly then i will build in chromemoly, but if i get a little weight gain by using more standard steel i will go with that, i don`t wanna build it like a hillbilly either, but i think you get my point..

I will order the rulebook this week, then i will have a chat with Bill Savage again to see if i can make my build fit a class, hopefully that will be possible..

I will be lightyears behind a true offroad vehicle, but it still seems alot more fun to be in the competition anyway..

Thanx for helping me out..
 

atomicjoe23

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What uniball size do you recomend when building a-arms..? ( 1000 kg vehicle )
I have only seen 1" and 1.5" uniballs available. . .that makes it a lot easier to narrow the choices down. Then next step will be to determine how much space you have to work with. . .can you fit the 1.5" uniball or not? The pricing that I have seen has the 1.5" uniballs only $14 (USD) more expensive than the 1.0" uniball. . .for that price difference I think it comes down to what can you fit.

tube dimensions on a-arms and material ??
You will be safe with 1.75" x 0.120" DOM tubing. . .for as light as your car will be (under 3000 lbs.) you could probably get away with 1.5" (or maybe even 1.25") x 0.120" for the A-arms. I personally wouldn't go below 1.5" just because I don't have any experience building A-arms for this size of vehicle.

Is it possible to reinforce the original spindle by simply adding material on weak spots. Or will it get weaker when welding on the spindle, i dont know what material it`s made from but it looks like all other spindles, and what material should i use??
Are you talking about the spindle or the upright? If you are talking about the upright then yes, you can gusset it for strength. As long as you don't put SO much heat into the upright that you change the properties of the material it's made from you won't weaken it by welding it. . .that may mean that you need to weld a little here, then move somewhere else and weld some there, then wait for it to cool for a while and then start welding some more. The amount of time you can weld on it at one time will depend upon how much material there is to spread and dissipate the heat.

It will be better if the upright is forged and not cast. . .you can weld cast metal, but it is much more difficult than forged and usually requires a significant preheat to do so successfully. . .that would make welding on it and maintaining the heat without overheating something as small as an upright that much more difficult.

Good Luck!
 

Kenshiro

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What uniball size do you recomend when building a-arms..? ( 1000 kg vehicle )
I have only seen 1" and 1.5" uniballs available. . .that makes it a lot easier to narrow the choices down. Then next step will be to determine how much space you have to work with. . .can you fit the 1.5" uniball or not? The pricing that I have seen has the 1.5" uniballs only $14 (USD) more expensive than the 1.0" uniball. . .for that price difference I think it comes down to what can you fit.

tube dimensions on a-arms and material ??
You will be safe with 1.75" x 0.120" DOM tubing. . .for as light as your car will be (under 3000 lbs.) you could probably get away with 1.5" (or maybe even 1.25") x 0.120" for the A-arms. I personally wouldn't go below 1.5" just because I don't have any experience building A-arms for this size of vehicle.

Is it possible to reinforce the original spindle by simply adding material on weak spots. Or will it get weaker when welding on the spindle, i dont know what material it`s made from but it looks like all other spindles, and what material should i use??
Are you talking about the spindle or the upright? If you are talking about the upright then yes, you can gusset it for strength. As long as you don't put SO much heat into the upright that you change the properties of the material it's made from you won't weaken it by welding it. . .that may mean that you need to weld a little here, then move somewhere else and weld some there, then wait for it to cool for a while and then start welding some more. The amount of time you can weld on it at one time will depend upon how much material there is to spread and dissipate the heat.

It will be better if the upright is forged and not cast. . .you can weld cast metal, but it is much more difficult than forged and usually requires a significant preheat to do so successfully. . .that would make welding on it and maintaining the heat without overheating something as small as an upright that much more difficult.

Good Luck!

Thanks,, that is alot of usefull information. The part that is connected to the A-arms holding the wheel we call spindle in Sweden, but i guess you call it upright over there..

1,75" tubing for a-arms sounds HUGE on my tiny ride.. Ì looked at an rallycross divison 1 car and they were never above 1",, Not that i compare rallycross with some little jumps with a baja car, but even 1,5" seems really big.. I think 1" with some reinforcement plates at the right positions would do it, but that`s just my guess and i understand that it will ofcourse be alot stronger with bigger tubing..

Do you always use uniball type setups or do you use bushings at some places ??

When building "ears" to mount my shox, i guess i build them a bit wider apart than the thickness of the shock, and then use spacers on each side right,,??

Thanks alot for all the help..

Linus..
 

GDRBORETIRED

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Baja rule of thumb- If you think X size will work go one size larger! There is no reason Ohlins wouldn't work. If they will work with you that is even better.
 
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