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who is racing class 8 at the SF250

Old School 8

Well-Known Member
I haven't posted here in a while, but I thought, since this was about my class, I would add my opinion.
There was controversy about aluminium blocks in class 8, way back in the mid 80's. Long time class 8 racer Larry Minor, somehow (?) got GM to assign a GM part number to an aftermarket aluminium block. The class 8 representative at the time, was Scoop Vessels. Scoop sent out a letter to all us class 8 competitors, asking everyone opinions on the aluminium block situation. Now I believe at the time, Scoop was looking out "for the little guy", because he certainly had the funds to go with an aluminium block himself. But the rules stated "no aluminium block, or heads.
And this rule had been around for a long, long, time. But, times changed, and a compromise was struck.
"No aluminium blocks" would still be the rule, but now aluminium heads were allowed. This, was a big change from the traditional thinking of the old class 8 ranks. And years later, when I sold one of my old class 8 trucks, the guy who bought it, wanted to install a Chevy LS motor. The Tech official (Savage) deemed the rules still said "No aluminium blocks". Somehow, somewhere, I think the old rules get fudged a little here, over-looked a little there, and then it eventually gets changed around to the situation we now have. Yes, the Dodge SRT came with the aluminium V-10 for a few years, and that is not challenged, but it really goes against the spirit of class 8 rules. Ya, ya, ya, I know,
"the spirit of the rules" is not the same as the written rule.
 

PAB

40's rock!
We considered teaming up on some class 8 races in 2015 but maybe not... This is why the TT and 7 class are good for us at this point
 
The problem is not with the racers. The problem is and has always been with the tech directors and the rule book - the book and the "rules" don't match and the side deals don't help.
 

Regulator1

Member
You are spot on there Ramsey. I have personally dealt at length with Savage over the notch rule (that I know you disagree with but that is not the point here) and how things are interpreted by the technical director. Art is a great guy, but his read of the rules is not how it was written or intended. Just as Mike posted above about the aluminum blocks. Since then there was a modification put in where if a block is offered for general market consumption meaning over 200,000 units were sold to the general public, then it is legal. The class 8 rules have been modified and changed over the years in many ways to help the class and in many ways to hurt the class. What Chet and the Mills team claims as a stock fuel injection though is simply not true. They know it, the world knows it. That being said, until the promoter stops handling the rules, you will always have issues like this. Whether it is Roger Norman, Casey or even if Sal were still in charge.
 

Mark Newhan

Well-Known Member
I haven't posted here in a while, but I thought, since this was about my class, I would add my opinion.
There was controversy about aluminium blocks in class 8, way back in the mid 80's. Long time class 8 racer Larry Minor, somehow (?) got GM to assign a GM part number to an aftermarket aluminium block. The class 8 representative at the time, was Scoop Vessels. Scoop sent out a letter to all us class 8 competitors, asking everyone opinions on the aluminium block situation. Now I believe at the time, Scoop was looking out "for the little guy", because he certainly had the funds to go with an aluminium block himself. But the rules stated "no aluminium block, or heads.
And this rule had been around for a long, long, time. But, times changed, and a compromise was struck.
"No aluminium blocks" would still be the rule, but now aluminium heads were allowed. This, was a big change from the traditional thinking of the old class 8 ranks. And years later, when I sold one of my old class 8 trucks, the guy who bought it, wanted to install a Chevy LS motor. The Tech official (Savage) deemed the rules still said "No aluminium blocks". Somehow, somewhere, I think the old rules get fudged a little here, over-looked a little there, and then it eventually gets changed around to the situation we now have. Yes, the Dodge SRT came with the aluminium V-10 for a few years, and that is not challenged, but it really goes against the spirit of class 8 rules. Ya, ya, ya, I know,
"the spirit of the rules" is not the same as the written rule.

The spirit of the rule was to look out for the little guy. What has changed is the availablity, cost and technology. The rules allow for the use of aftermarket block (Dart, Bow tie, SVO) and others as long as they were iron. Aluminum blocks were very expensive "back in the day".

That notwithstanding, GM offers a half ton truck with an aluminum block. I did talk to Savage when I was building the Chevy class 8 (yet to be finished). He told me that I could use an LS7, but I'd have to use the smaller throttle body used on the 305 C.I. Aluminum block, which wouldn't really work, so I went with a $30,000 Dart block, Dart heads, dry stumped 700 HP engine... Tons of savings there, pffft.

The class 8 numbers are very low in this day and age. I believe that it isn't due to the cost of running them, to the contrary I believe that it is because the class hasn't progressed like ALL other classes. This is the same problem that Protruck saw during it's pinnacle. People wanted to advance with technology, but it wasn't gunna happen so people moved on.

Class 10 moved on with water cooled "spec" engine as has class 5 open. In my opinion with all the regressions in class 1 (no truggy's) it should get the same "spec engines and 6100. Let the money go to The TT class and let everyone run the same engine since that what all of the complaining seems to be about these day... Leveling the playing field.
 

12LaPaz

Well-Known Member
No doubt the v10 runs good but he still has to face the same obstacles as every one else. Meaning he has to go without loosing a rear gear, breaking a axel, knocking the driveline off, getting a flat or any of the other things that keep you from winning a race.
Sounds like he found a engine/frame combination that works good for his program.
I have a feeling he would do just as good if he had a v8


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Mark Newhan

Well-Known Member
Wasn't there some past controversy about Ampudias truck being legal or did that get sorted out?


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Yes it did get sorted out. Score began to allow the frames to be moved. I.E. Channeled, kicked, notched etc...
 

Kent Kroeker

Well-Known Member
It's disappointing that that truck isn't racing. In my opinion that truck and the Ford that Newhan built are the two most creative and best designed Class 8s in the field. It would be awesome to see both of those trucks racing in Baja.
 

Kent Kroeker

Well-Known Member
No doubt the v10 runs good but he still has to face the same obstacles as every one else. Meaning he has to go without loosing a rear gear, breaking a axel, knocking the driveline off, getting a flat or any of the other things that keep you from winning a race.
Sounds like he found a engine/frame combination that works good for his program.
I have a feeling he would do just as good if he had a v8


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Mcrae Glass called me earlier today. We spoke for about 30 minutes, laughing about this thread - and the general state of racing. A big, badass motor is awesome and can be an advantage, but the desert is the Great Equalizer.

In BITD 2012 Mcrae and I flat out battled in every race. I have four second place trophies to show for that season - three of which I lost to Mcrae by less than 2 minutes! It was awesome racing. I nerfed him on the pavement at 135 mph at Henderson, then I got a flat and he beat me by 31 seconds! When we got out of our trucks at the finish we were both beat up and totally spent. We hugged each other - laughing because it was such an epic battle. There was a lot of satisfaction knowing that we were both going all out, so much that it almost didn't even matter who actually won the race.

At that time our truck wasn't developed enough to beat him. It's as simple as that. We both worked our asses off that entire season, testing, tuning and developing - then drove hard every race. Money helps programs succeed, but it's really hard work and dedication that buys your position.

The quote above says it all.
 

Jerry

Well-Known Member
That's a good looking truck.

If you want to race Class 8 with it and not annoy any purists, just put some frame back in the rear - you can probably sandwich the existing tubes. It's legal to notch the frame several inches to help clear the housing at full bump. There are all kinds of tricky ways to make it work, but the art of Class 8 is fitting a pair of frame rails into a Trophy Truck chassis. It's probably better to race Class 8 than Heavy Metal because you'll start closer to the front.

If you don't want to undertake this PIA, you can simply ask your competitors if they will sign a "no-protest" waiver. I don't know anyone who wouldn't sign a waiver to allow you to race with Class 8. It's all good fun and I doubt anyone would exclude you because you were lacking some perfunctory rear frame rails. It's really the rails in the front that are the performance handicappers, not the rear. And it looks like your truck has those.

I like it, waiver when I'm ready. Stock frame to the rear of cab. I took Kyle for a ride and he got me thinking. I hear the v10 is a monster.

I kinda have a handicap, working doors.
 

Jerry

Well-Known Member
Not to mention it has a steel cab and working doors. If I were a purist, I'd say all class 8's should be built this way... But I'm not. Hehe.

The challenge in building a class 8 in the modern era is working around the frame. Using a frame make you make compromises and limits things like front shock geometry on A-Arm trucks and lack of up travel on I beam trucks as well as a crappy approach angle...

Jerry,I've always liked your T shirts... Make some that say "Just Race It", cause I'm sure some 1450 guys will set their sights on you, just like they have with a couple trucks that I've built. Again... martyrdom...
I always call out those that give you guys a hard time for racing with us. Bunch of weenies. The thing is most of the 1400/1450 racers don't prep or test. We are not considered real racers. We (my team and I) are trying to change that. Our class has the biggest draw outside of TT, I believe. A ton of our class have trucks that would fit nicely in class 8.

New shirts are coming! @bigshocksbigtiresworkingdoors

 

SMS81

Well-Known Member
Sucks that in a dying class people want to protest some of the last remaining warriors. Class 8 to me has always been the best group of drivers/owners in offroad. I was just happy to see some other "8's" show up! Just sold mine due to lack of turn out. I will miss racing with the group.
 

mikek

Member
You guys were in then out of the 1000 and then back in at the very last minute. A privateer like me needs a championship to secure a tire deal for a season. $400 a project tire is a piss in the bucket to the guy that writes your team's checks, not the same for us. When you guys reentered you forced our hand.
Winning by default is not winning.

What does "forced our hand" mean? You were not going to race the 1000 if Mills did not race? Or you had to protest someone to win a championship without racing or finishing?
 

johnnyweb

Well-Known Member
I did not realize there was some protesting going on recently when I made my comments. I thought it was just chatter regarding class 8.

I for one am looking forward to class 8 making a bit of a rejuvenation. I know of 3-4 more people coming out to run the class me being one of them. Most in BITD but still good to see. I know of one guy that likes to race in SCORE that just purchased a class 8. I think it is a great alternative to 6100 as that class has spiked it cost drastically in the last year or two. That is mainly why I am going the direction I am to class 8. Just hoping the entries are there to have some people to race against.
 
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