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Who makes the best TT today?

jcorsico

Well-Known Member
Active suspension was held up by shaft velocity, heat, and slow activation of mechanicals and digital. It seems to be all coming together and we might see it soon as a spin off of an OEM digital system. I would think a first step would be to put the antis and sway bars into the shocks. Then decide whether one straight line tune would be sufficient for a race. I am not seeing any mystery in the mechanicals, just the sensors (accelerometers), programming...and patents. This is a way higher level than suspension design and probably up there with engine development.
Active suspension will kill the "unlimited" nature of the TT class. One team will spend the inordinate amount of money to get it to work, and it will be such an overwhelming advantage that they crush everybody else. The system will then get banned to avoid an arms race (that none of the teams want) and to keep the racing interesting for the fans.

This has happened repeatedly in F1. The vacuum cars. The 1500hp qualifying only engines. Active suspension. Active aero. Traction control. Antilock brakes. All banned after somebody spent the cash and then crushed everybody else.

TT has worked as an "unlimited" class because nobody has really gone hog wild and actually spent an unlimited amount of money. I really hope it stays that way! It's one of the coolest things about it.
 

PeteRock

Well-Known Member
I would say, some teams have spent essentially unlimited funds to develop game changers. Some have made signifigant advances in the class, others not so much ( Herbst, and Pflueger). The fact is that this type of Motorsport has very unique technical challenges. I would dare say its easier to develop a faster F1 car or LMP1 car than is to develop a faster TT.
 

Dirty Harry

Well-Known Member
I would dare say its easier to develop a faster F1 car or LMP1 car than is to develop a faster TT.
I don’t think that is the case at all. No offense to the Herbsts, but their “unlimited” funds and Honda’s “unlimited” funds aren’t in the same league. There is plenty of room on the table for a faster TT, if OEMs ever get involved we will likely see a huge improvement. But why would they want to spend all that money for basically no return on their investment?
 

isdtbower

Well-Known Member
If a TT team put together 40+ engineers and thinkers like F1 or even Peugeot in Dakar, they would probably dominate for a long time like the Toyota Baja Team did for several years. Now if that happened, I bet the budget might surpass that of F1. NASCAR for sure...if not already.
 

jcorsico

Well-Known Member
I would say, some teams have spent essentially unlimited funds to develop game changers. Some have made signifigant advances in the class, others not so much ( Herbst, and Pflueger). The fact is that this type of Motorsport has very unique technical challenges. I would dare say its easier to develop a faster F1 car or LMP1 car than is to develop a faster TT.
If a TT team put together 40+ engineers and thinkers like F1 or even Peugeot in Dakar, they would probably dominate for a long time like the Toyota Baja Team did for several years. Now if that happened, I bet the budget might surpass that of F1. NASCAR for sure...if not already.
No offense to anyone, but there seems to be a misconception as to how much it costs to field a competitive F1 car. In 2016, the 10 F1 teams combined spent $2.6 billion. $2.6 BILLION. Ferrari alone spent over $500 million.

Herbst has a massive budget, but it's "massive" within the context of regular rich people in the United States. The Mercedes AMG F1 team employees over 700 people who work on the chassis alone. The engine department has another 400. Then add in all of the generic support people (truck drivers, janitors, legal, HR, accounting, etc.) and you get to a total of over 1500 employees.

No Baja race team has ever come even remotely close to that level of spend. Even winning in Dakar and WRC takes only a pittance compared to F1.
 

Bricoop

Well-Known Member
Active suspension will kill the "unlimited" nature of the TT class. One team will spend the inordinate amount of money to get it to work, and it will be such an overwhelming advantage that they crush everybody else. The system will then get banned to avoid an arms race (that none of the teams want) and to keep the racing interesting for the fans.

This has happened repeatedly in F1. The vacuum cars. The 1500hp qualifying only engines. Active suspension. Active aero. Traction control. Antilock brakes. All banned after somebody spent the cash and then crushed everybody else.

TT has worked as an "unlimited" class because nobody has really gone hog wild and actually spent an unlimited amount of money. I really hope it stays that way! It's one of the coolest things about it.
We need to remember though, F1 is working to create solutions within a very strict rule set. In an unlimited Off-Road class, as long as you're hitting the safety requirements, its allowed. Has anything in off-road ever been banned purely because it created a competitive advantage?(Honest Question) In the history of off-road racing there have been vehicles that we're clearly better than the field, which then pushed the field to improve.
 

BigBlue&Goldie

Well-Known Member
We need to remember though, F1 is working to create solutions within a very strict rule set. In an unlimited Off-Road class, as long as you're hitting the safety requirements, its allowed. Has anything in off-road ever been banned purely because it created a competitive advantage?(Honest Question) In the history of off-road racing there have been vehicles that we're clearly better than the field, which then pushed the field to improve.
Forced in induction (up until recently).
 

BANNEDFROMBAJA

2317 Cherimoya Drive Suite A Vista, CA 92084
Has anything in off-road ever been banned purely because it created a competitive advantage?(Honest Question)
Yes, The Ryan Arciero Highway fuel rule lol
 

jcorsico

Well-Known Member
We need to remember though, F1 is working to create solutions within a very strict rule set. In an unlimited Off-Road class, as long as you're hitting the safety requirements, its allowed. Has anything in off-road ever been banned purely because it created a competitive advantage?(Honest Question) In the history of off-road racing there have been vehicles that we're clearly better than the field, which then pushed the field to improve.
My point is that nothing has been banned in off road racing because nobody in off road racing has spent $200 million developing technology that allows utter domination.

F1 used to have the same rule set as trophy trucks - unlimited. But then teams started spending preposterous amounts of money developing technology that allows them to dominate. And then the banning started.

TT development and the TT rule book is identical to F1 in the 1970's. Not F1 today. My fear is that TT racing will develop into F1 today, once somebody develops software to automate some part of the truck (most likely suspension).

If you gave me $200 million to spend, I could develop a trophy truck with an actively controlled hydraulic suspension, linked to a GPS system with topographical data of the course. Prerun the course and update your topographical map one week before the event. The truck then knows every major bump on the course, and what the suspension should should do in response.

That truck crushes everybody, but it's no fun.
 

FlyHiFlyLo

Ace Mechanic
All of the "PREMIUM" TTbuilders are building the SAME trucks (basically)....any of the "PREMIUM" DRIVERS can and do win in any of them, i.e. ANDY, . . This years races have been decided by PREMIUM starting positions, which was dictated by SLIPPERY tactics at the sf250 in the draw...too bad....how to make it more fair? 3 minute start gaps for first 20 trucks? ...or keep it the way it is? Races determined by 3-5 Mile banzal qualifying run? Or when one of the PREMIUM drivers gets a 4x4 and out qualifies everyone everyrace and always gets to start first everytime??? .......
Better watch it! That was a very political post Dillhole!
 

Zambo

Well-Known Member
Its fun to say Unlimited racing!

Unlimited unlimited unlimited. There I said it 3 times!

Doesn't make it so. There are limits and rules in every form of racing or else it isn't really racing.
 

swu chase1

Well-Known Member
you can see it from google but its still needs to be pre run to see if it all works . you have to connect the dots a good co driver that makes notes and pays attention is another piece of the puzzle. Its not just a seat its part of the team.
 
Has anything in off-road ever been banned purely because it created a competitive advantage?
Sure, I can think of five right off the top of my head: fuel injection, superchargers, turbochargers, "in-flight" refueling, and exotic fuels.

And then there's pitting on/along the highway which can offer time and strategic advantage while presenting both
safety and public relation "image" issues, "off-board" rolling mechanics.
 
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OFFRD-JNKIE

Well-Known Member
IF you put enough money into Score racing you can run unlimited such as the forced induction twin diesel truck but when another driver builds a twin turbo motor it's not aloud?
 
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