Who makes the best TT today?

BANNED4LIFE

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I am VERY excited to see what Bryce can do in this. Beautiful.
Remember when you nitwits said rg was the "gamechanger" when he put a 5 speed gearbox in his truck, and I said you guys were dumb? ....well I WAS RIGHT....and I'm right NOW....THIS 4X4 WITH AN "A+" DRIVER WILL BE THE REAL GAMECHANGER......starting FIRST every race that has qualifying with CHANGE THE GAME!!!! GO BRYCE!!!!!
 

Bricoop

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Remember when you nitwits said rg was the "gamechanger" when he put a 5 speed gearbox in his truck, and I said you guys were dumb? ....well I WAS RIGHT....and I'm right NOW....THIS 4X4 WITH AN "A+" DRIVER WILL BE THE REAL GAMECHANGER......starting FIRST every race that has qualifying with CHANGE THE GAME!!!! GO BRYCE!!!!!
Nah, I don't recall ever saying such. Some others did though.
 

isdtbower

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It IS an exciting time to be an engineer or like-minded. And a time when driver feedback will be increasingly important. If you believe that 2WD TT tech is static, there is a lot coming to make them even more dynamic but also a whole lot more coming to make 4x4 even more aggressive.

A driver who has driven both seems to think that 4x4 might be a little oversold because a 2wd TT has so much drive. The 60/40 weight ratio, increased HP efficiency, front clearance, wheel travel, and simple architecture of the 2WD keeps it competitive. Driver feedback is going to determine if the weight ratios can move forward for more 4x4 bite in turns and other. That bite has to make up for the drivetrain loss in HP at the wheels... but maybe more traction. ??

From here on, it is the digital engineers (and like-minded) that are going to work at changing the game. Michael Lembke at Dana said in a SAE paper that "If you look at the pace of change, what has happened in electrification in the last five years, it's equivalent to what happened with combustion engines and transmissions in the last 25 years." "Dana's new eS5700 e-drive axle is designed as a "drop-in" solution for medium duty truck and bus suspensions. It recently entered service in...China. Using a liquid cooled motor and inverter, and including disc brakes, the unit only weighs 673 lbs." Add some links, a hybrid battery pack and go! 2wd or 4wd.

Geared centers with back-to-back CV's are out there and used in Pro4. Those are easily replaced with motors, and ditch transfer cases, transmissions, drivelines, hyploid gearing, etc. etc. But you better have your digital hat on.

Who really knows were this is going. A Tesla will barely make it one lap at Laguna. And, supposedly, a Corvette only one 12 mile lap at Nurburgring on 110. HYBRID...but that is a BIG world of options.

Apparently the 2019 Raptors will have a fairly advanced active suspension by Fox and Ford digital engineers. That will start the trickle down in a quicker way for both trucks. Who will benefit from that the most...??? From what we have seen in other forms of racing and comparative track days it has been the 4WD.

The builders that are playing with 4WD now will have the mechanical kinematics down to take full advantage of change. Engineers talk about 4WD increasing the tire patch lateral stiffness......which relates to driver confidence....

Watching, Building recreation-ally, and Voting Pete's way.....but unfortunately still analog minded.
 

Bricoop

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Apparently the 2019 Raptors will have a fairly advanced active suspension by Fox and Ford digital engineers. That will start the trickle down in a quicker way for both trucks.
Too bad the factories have left the sport. The trickle is supposed to start in racing and trickle the to the consumer.
 

isdtbower

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Too bad the factories have left the sport. The trickle is supposed to start in racing and trickle the to the consumer.

I think the active shock trickle did start in asphalt racing. Now applying marginally to OEM offroad. RobMac did have some sort of shock stiffening via a toggle. Who knows what is out there. Only shocks and/or bypasses with wires will hint. McLaren and others have been crosslinking hydraulics and now Volvo and possibly Ford have separate shocks with wifi in each to talk to one another. Each has an accelerometer (?) to feed inputs. The future looks crazy with lots of equations that are difficult to solve....especially offroad. I know 8 years ago there were "secretish" autonomous programs with offroad in mind with motors for/in each wheel. They were learning from comp crawlers and KOH rigs. A more down-to-earth program than NASA. As on the street, it is reading/sensing and determining the best line ahead.

We have had bench racing discussions about some of the drivers getting a bad rap about just walking away from their rides without trying to fix them. How do you fix digital?

SAE "Automotive Engineering" can be more entertaining and enriching than News Stand Mags. At least it suggests questions to search for answers.

But I don't think any of the top builders are being blind-sided. Just applying the best and reliable tech available today. Realizing obsolete tomorrow and a clean screen.
 

Wicked Al

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Hypothetically speaking, if the BEST TT builder gave you a 3% vehicle performance advantage, how much of the market would go to that builder? How much of a premium could they charge?

I can see the intent of the original question, if I was in the market for a TT, who should I go to? It appears as if many builders are essentially similar in performance, so how big of an affect would a builder with a defensible IP advantage have of new tech they just brought out to market? How much of the market could they gain and what would the market pay for, let's say, a 3% performance advantage?
 

Steve Marolda

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I think there's so many variables in this sort of racing that as long as the truck is close in performance it's the driver that makes the difference. You want to go 3% faster? Keep the throttle flat 3% longer. Beyond that it's just hype and marketing.
 

turbodon

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Well practice makes perfect right?
I would imagine Geiser Bros has the most builds under their belts. Those builds get raced, tested, broken, repaired, rebuilt, etc.

You would have to imagine that with the volume they do, they can witness the shortcomings, areas that need improving, and get to continually improve their product based on the condition they see the trucks are in when they come back to them to be prepped.

When you've built 100 TT's vs 10 TT's you have a major upper hand advantage in that you've done some things and seen some things.

I don't think there's an unbiased measurement you could possible use to say that Brand X TT is any % better "vehicle performance" than Brand Y TT
 

Robert Encinas

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We need to remember though, F1 is working to create solutions within a very strict rule set. In an unlimited Off-Road class, as long as you're hitting the safety requirements, its allowed. Has anything in off-road ever been banned purely because it created a competitive advantage?(Honest Question) In the history of off-road racing there have been vehicles that we're clearly better than the field, which then pushed the field to improve.
Herbst Truggy-Landshark did.
 

DanMcMillin

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Has anything in off-road ever been banned purely because it created a competitive advantage?(Honest Question) In the history of off-road racing there have been vehicles that we're clearly better than the field, which then pushed the field to improve.

Miller/Arciero fueling "on the go."
 

Mike @ pit b

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Eh, the land shark didn't rell get banned from CL1, it was more the buggy dorks whining about non transaxle cars.

Now Rob Mac's pro4, That got flat out banned.

It was about TT drivers sandbagging a class with a TT they ran in the TT class all season.
 

Wicked Al

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I think there's so many variables in this sort of racing that as long as the truck is close in performance it's the driver that makes the difference. You want to go 3% faster? Keep the throttle flat 3% longer. Beyond that it's just hype and marketing.

Steve, I'm talking beyond the hype and marketing. If there was a demonstrable 3% improvement in the vehicle. Same driver, two vehicles. The one they drive all the time and one with some whiz bang improvement that nets a 3% improvement. What is that worth in market share and price premium? Would drivers switch builders to get it?

Alex
 

Steve Marolda

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Steve, I'm talking beyond the hype and marketing. If there was a demonstrable 3% improvement in the vehicle. Same driver, two vehicles. The one they drive all the time and one with some whiz bang improvement that nets a 3% improvement. What is that worth in market share and price premium? Would drivers switch builders to get it?

Alex
If you want to throw some money at the situation I would start by thinking out of the box. Any advantage in the truck would only be an advantage for one race, then everybody would have it. You need something you could hide for awhile. How about some military or alien technology goggles that allows you to see through the dust. Even a slow truck could win if you didn't have to let-off for the dust.
 

BigBlue&Goldie

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Steve, I'm talking beyond the hype and marketing. If there was a demonstrable 3% improvement in the vehicle. Same driver, two vehicles. The one they drive all the time and one with some whiz bang improvement that nets a 3% improvement. What is that worth in market share and price premium? Would drivers switch builders to get it?

Alex

That isn't really a question that can be broadly answered. A lot of guys have deals worked out with their builders that are worth much more than a 3% improvement. A race car is a "package", so there are other factors besides which one is thought to be the best. The best truck with poor support isn't worth a whole lot if you can't keep it out of the prep bay. The big question is why the truck is 3% better........shock tuning, suspension geometry, engine package, trans gearing, aerodynamics, etc.? The other question is where is the truck 3% better........Laughlin, Baja, etc.? With how many different makes of trucks are winning races, I don't think you could ever say one truck is that much better than the others.
 

Crusty Shellback

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How many of the trucks from any of the major builders are run box stock as delivered to the team?

Not many I bet. Each team/drivre is going to tweak it here and there to fit them best. Maybe even tweak it to fit different races.
 
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