Why are short course events...

Pro-Lite Brian

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I've always wondered why the current short course events two complete races on the same weekend. Why not condense the weekend into one main event with a qualifying race.

My idea of what I would like to see is...

Saturday Night or Sunday Day main events for the Main classes, Pro-2, Pro-Lite, and Pro-Buggy. Karts, UTV, Single buggy, and Sportsman-Lite Main events are done Saturday afternoon, after the PRO class qualifying heats. Split each class into Heat A, and Heat B. Qualify for starting positions in the qualifying heats. Award passing points for each position advanced in the heats. Invert the entire field to come up with the starting positions in the heats. Award no points directly from qualifying. It is then advantageous to qualify number 1 and start in the rear because you have the opportunity to pass more people during your heat. The finishing order from Heat A starts on the inside of each row during the main event, and Heat B fills the outside of each row. Odd number qualifiers go in Heat A, and even numbers in Heat B.

Pro-2 is the only class that is shown on National TV (NBC, ABC, or CBS). Pro-Lite and Pro-Buggy are shown on cable TV, and the other classes are combined during a single episode of highlights for each event. This would create an obvious ladder of classes, leading upto PRO-2.


I'll add to this later, that's enough for now...
 

pappawheely

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When the promoters, teams, sponsors and even media goons go through all the trouble and expense to get a race together you need to get all the bang for your buck as possible. Just showing up is expensive the additional overhead would kill a lot of teams.
 

ProLite13

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Who would benefit from this creative concept?

What would the advantage be to a single race weekend?

DP:cool:
 

ryant35

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There would either be half as many rounds, or twice the weekends.
 

OffroadExit

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Motocross switched to the one day big show format. It seems to be working for them.
 

LukeHuff

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But what if you had a breakdown or someone duked you out, and you knew you were fast enough to make it to the main. theres no second chance, that

would be a tough weekend if something happened. Other than that i think it would make the drivers drive harder and be more aggressive, and you kind of

get more races. Like in LOORS fans only see U2 race once a day. What if they could see 2 heat races and then the main? I'd forsure be going to every

stop
 

Pro-Lite Brian

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Why make the "show" 1-day? Because all we are doing is splitting the crowd by having it two days. The track time would be the same for the racers.

Also, only the Main events would take place on the "show" day. The day before would be a ton of racing that actually had racers pushing hard every lap. No more need for the competition yellow! Hardcore fans could come watch the prelims, and the general public could see a compact, smashmouth group of main events, and not have to be out ALL day in the heat, sun, rain, wind, etc...

This would also get rid of the need for anyone to arrive before Friday. That's one less day of work the crew has to miss!


I'm suprised nobody jumped on me for the classes, or lack there of...
 

ProLite13

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Motocross switched to the one day big show format. It seems to be working for them.
250 Lites 450 Supercross

Which (2) classes will it be?:)

ProLite and Pro2 there would be some upset racers with large investments out there now.

DP:cool:
 

handmethemic

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Off-road racing is not Motocross.

If you want to have pro shows for off-road with just Pro 2 and Pro Lite, go for it. I wouldn't pay 60 bucks to see each class race twice in a night. I'd rather pay my 30 (and the same for my kids and family) to go watch seven "lower class" races. Except then if you had weekly pro only shows, you better give the sportsmen a LOT of choices when it comes to regional/feeder series. If you're a Pro Am motocross racer you could probably race 40 weekends a year. Give the sportsmen as many choices.

This opens up a discussion we've had before about what exactly is a pro. You'd need a definitive pro class, or small set of pro classes. It would have to be a graduated system: dominate one series and move up to the next. Wouldn't exactly work though, because in motocross you could theoretically race the same bike from your amateur class all the way to national motocross. That doesn't translate well to off road where if you want to "move up" you have to buy another piece of equipment that'll run you $60,000 or more.

(Side note: who ever decided that Pro 2 is the premier class? Why can't it be that one SERIES is a pro series. With Pro Kart, Pro UTV, Pro 1600, Pro Stock Truck, etc.? Keep the grouping of the classes the same. Keep a two day show for the fans, have a nationally touring series with all those classes. You want to be the best 1600 buggy racer in the world? Earn your way into the pro series, race Pro 1600 with the best 1600 buggy racers in the world. This is how rock crawling is set up (to a point) and it works pretty well far as I can tell.)

Then once you decide who the "pros" are, you'd have to explain to the guys who aren't pros that they have to move down until they earn their way back up. Maybe calling them "Pros" is not quite accurate. Lucas Oil has the right idea with "Unlimited 2" etc. That still indicates that an absolute amateur could race it if they wanted to.

(Got a little off topic there...)

As for off-road being a one day show... does that mean a wristband would be half price? Twenty bucks here in the midwest and 25 out west? I doubt that's how it would work. Fan value is what makes off-road great. Take Bark River or Crandon, or Glen Helen. Pay 35(ish) dollars for a two day pass, watch two days full of racing, pay an extra 30 bucks and you can camp. Family of four to camp: 35 x 2 (adults) + 15 x 2 (kids) + 30 (camping) = 130 bucks, not bad for a weekend of entertainment. Compared to major sporting events, food prices are pretty darn good at off-road races, far as I can tell anyway. I'd rather pay three bucks for a burger at a race than 7.50 at a ballgame. Show up to a NASCAR race with a family of four and two hundred bucks and tell them you want to camp and watch two days packed with racing and have free roam of the pits and they'll tell you to get lost.

This is why I'm against all this "forward moving" crap. Fans that come to the track are treated to (in my opinion) the greatest fan sport in America. What other sport can you cheer on your favorite guy or gal, then later that day walk right up to them and talk to them like an old friend and grab an autograph FOR FREE? No other sporting event I've ever been to is able to engage the fans like off-road. You could be an NFL season ticket holder your whole life and never talk to a single NFL player, but if you go to one off-road event you can literally meet dozens upon dozens of the best racers in the country.

Sorry for the winding ramble there, it got out of hand.
 

eric2448

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I remember when CORR had their Jason Baldwin Memorial Cup race and ran the qualifying races for that event as an extra race each day. Having two Pro2 races one day and two Pro4 races the next. It really did make the show alot more exciting for some reason.
 

racer56

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I've always wondered why the current short course events two complete races on the same weekend. Why not condense the weekend into one main event with a qualifying race.

My idea of what I would like to see is...

Saturday Night or Sunday Day main events for the Main classes, Pro-2, Pro-Lite, and Pro-Buggy. Karts, UTV, Single buggy, and Sportsman-Lite Main events are done Saturday afternoon, after the PRO class qualifying heats. Split each class into Heat A, and Heat B. Qualify for starting positions in the qualifying heats. Award passing points for each position advanced in the heats. Invert the entire field to come up with the starting positions in the heats. Award no points directly from qualifying. It is then advantageous to qualify number 1 and start in the rear because you have the opportunity to pass more people during your heat. The finishing order from Heat A starts on the inside of each row during the main event, and Heat B fills the outside of each row. Odd number qualifiers go in Heat A, and even numbers in Heat B.

Pro-2 is the only class that is shown on National TV (NBC, ABC, or CBS). Pro-Lite and Pro-Buggy are shown on cable TV, and the other classes are combined during a single episode of highlights for each event. This would create an obvious ladder of classes, leading upto PRO-2.


I'll add to this later, that's enough for now...
This is the format for the Chili Bowl midget nationals and it is absolutely everybody's favorite race, competitors and fans included.
 

ProLite13

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Off-road racing is not Motocross.

If you want to have pro shows for off-road with just Pro 2 and Pro Lite, go for it. I wouldn't pay 60 bucks to see each class race twice in a night. I'd rather pay my 30 (and the same for my kids and family) to go watch seven "lower class" races. Except then if you had weekly pro only shows, you better give the sportsmen a LOT of choices when it comes to regional/feeder series. If you're a Pro Am motocross racer you could probably race 40 weekends a year. Give the sportsmen as many choices.

This opens up a discussion we've had before about what exactly is a pro. You'd need a definitive pro class, or small set of pro classes. It would have to be a graduated system: dominate one series and move up to the next. Wouldn't exactly work though, because in motocross you could theoretically race the same bike from your amateur class all the way to national motocross. That doesn't translate well to off road where if you want to "move up" you have to buy another piece of equipment that'll run you $60,000 or more.

(Side note: who ever decided that Pro 2 is the premier class? Why can't it be that one SERIES is a pro series. With Pro Kart, Pro UTV, Pro 1600, Pro Stock Truck, etc.? Keep the grouping of the classes the same. Keep a two day show for the fans, have a nationally touring series with all those classes. You want to be the best 1600 buggy racer in the world? Earn your way into the pro series, race Pro 1600 with the best 1600 buggy racers in the world. This is how rock crawling is set up (to a point) and it works pretty well far as I can tell.)

Then once you decide who the "pros" are, you'd have to explain to the guys who aren't pros that they have to move down until they earn their way back up. Maybe calling them "Pros" is not quite accurate. Lucas Oil has the right idea with "Unlimited 2" etc. That still indicates that an absolute amateur could race it if they wanted to.

(Got a little off topic there...)

As for off-road being a one day show... does that mean a wristband would be half price? Twenty bucks here in the midwest and 25 out west? I doubt that's how it would work. Fan value is what makes off-road great. Take Bark River or Crandon, or Glen Helen. Pay 35(ish) dollars for a two day pass, watch two days full of racing, pay an extra 30 bucks and you can camp. Family of four to camp: 35 x 2 (adults) + 15 x 2 (kids) + 30 (camping) = 130 bucks, not bad for a weekend of entertainment. Compared to major sporting events, food prices are pretty darn good at off-road races, far as I can tell anyway. I'd rather pay three bucks for a burger at a race than 7.50 at a ballgame. Show up to a NASCAR race with a family of four and two hundred bucks and tell them you want to camp and watch two days packed with racing and have free roam of the pits and they'll tell you to get lost.

This is why I'm against all this "forward moving" crap. Fans that come to the track are treated to (in my opinion) the greatest fan sport in America. What other sport can you cheer on your favorite guy or gal, then later that day walk right up to them and talk to them like an old friend and grab an autograph FOR FREE? No other sporting event I've ever been to is able to engage the fans like off-road. You could be an NFL season ticket holder your whole life and never talk to a single NFL player, but if you go to one off-road event you can literally meet dozens upon dozens of the best racers in the country.

Sorry for the winding ramble there, it got out of hand.

My background is 90% BMX where there are A pros and AA pros with a pro open class and a pro cruiser class plus a Vet pro class as well as all am classes.

What sets the A pro class apart from the AA pro class is earnings until you have won enough money in the A pro class you don't move up to AA pro period this is per an 11 month season.

The option you have is to race pro open or pro cruiser if you want to run against the best of the best and prove yourself, but you still can't race AA pro unless your winnings/earnings are there.

This made for some great racing and tight battles in every race ran, and as a kid you were just as stoked on the single A's class as you were the double AA's class but still you knew the distinction between the 5 "PRO" classes.

Now I know motocross is a bit different than that but similar in ways theres a graduating scale to the top. In Off Road racing its cubic dollars and will be until there are feeder series to race in on a lower level thats why I am a huge supporter of the up and coming series or feeders to the big leagues they are necessary for evolvement.

Thats why I think that for anyone to move into the Pro2 class they should first get their feet wet through the Lites class just like supercross or motocross it should not be an option. So to answer your question about who decided that the Pro2 class is the premier class its the wallet that decides that for us. Otherwise if it were based on drivers skills / abilities and I'm not bashing anyone here you would see a lot of name changes in that so called premier class guaranteed.

It wouldn't be hard to determine what class everyone should be in we just need to get about 200 BULLY DOG SUPERLITES lined up for the true test of drivers abilities and skills then load each class accordingly.:)

Theres a lot more to being a pro than just the performance on the track you must also be able to promote yourself and your supporters off the track as well. I have seen some good and not so good pros in my time believe me when they say hes on the homie hookup its just that who can step on who to claw their way to the top.:eek:

With all that said lets move the show back to where the show can be seen by 60k plus spectators in a single evening. Premier class is Pro stadium trucks mid size, Pro buggies, Pro 1600, Pro UTV, Pro Karts. Leave the venues of today open to the Sportsman classes as the feeders into the BIG SHOW STADIUM STYLE!! And the
big trucks head back out to the desert to run with the cubic dollar dudes.

They say its all about money and thats the reason its not back into the stadiums already if someone knows the difference in price between the two please enlighten everyone it would be helpful in finding the future of the sport.

Comfortable climate controled seating, state of the art sound systems, an abundance of food and beer courts, the ambiance of a "BIG SHOW" under the lights everytime oh and the cool laser effects wouldn't hurt the show either.

You would still have the open pits for fans and show hype meet and greet free autographs etc, etc... I would pay $60.00 per family member for that show and do everytime the Supercross series hits Phoenix, Az. in January.:D

This is the way I see your vision coming alive Brian why try to reinvent the wheel we know works from 15 years ago MTEG STYLE!!?:D

DP:cool:
 

crower

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the next elsinore race is at night im hearing...going to a differ't format would help out for sure. this current one needs a lot of overhauling.
 
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