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Why dont you guys use coil-over sleeves?

geoff

Well-Known Member
I have looked at prices of coil over shocks from sway-a-way and theyre outrageous. Why dont any of you take a standard shock absorber and put a coilover sleeve on top of it? The rest of the automotive racing world has been doing this for years. Its saves a ton of $$ in manufacturing costs, and the end user benefits a ton.... I started making a set last night.

Mathmatics is the language of nature.
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
I think the King Prerunner shocks are like that, however the price of those is about the same as the SAW's. The reason that many off road shocks do not use sleeves is because it is not as heavy duty as a threading the shock body. Most of the circle track shocks use a sleeve with a circlip and I have seen those fail on heavy duty applications. Also, you have to thread a cylinder any way so you might as well thread the shock cylinder, and its fewer parts.
 

geoff

Well-Known Member
Yeah a lot of circle track guys use the aluminum sleeves, but for a more heavy duty option you could go to an aluminum sleeve with steel insert or even full steel.

also for the seat you could mount it off of the shock mount, and stabilze it using bigass hard durometer orings to locate it.

any thoughts?

Mathmatics is the language of nature.
 

Jerry Zaiden

Well-Known Member
I personaly do not like the design of an external sleeve. For the price and most important "QUALITY" Just spend the $400-500 for the real thing and get the Sway-A-Way, FOX, or Bilstein 2.5" coil-over. Do not sacrifice the QUALITY of a 20K truck with 5-10K in suspension upgrades for $100.
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
It is more then just somthing to hold the spring. You can not even come close to the dampening action of a King, SwayAway, or Bilstein by useing anythig available right off the shelf. And if one was made, you would still have to thow it away after a race because they are not rebuildable put all that into a shock and it will cost just as much as what they are charging.
 

Mike_HKmtrsprts

Well-Known Member
Just for the record Kings prerunner shocks do NOT use a threaded sleve over the bodie of the shock

If you must burn our flag...
please wrap yourself in it first
 

Donahoe

Well-Known Member
geoff, Its funny you should say that the pricing of sway-a-ways is outragous.. Did you know that 5 years ago that same 300.00 dollar shock was over 1200.00. Sway-a-way made those shock affordable to the pre-runner guys. Before they dropped the prices you would pay 750.00 for a 2 inch kuster shock. Its crazy but if you tried to have that shock built you would spend way way over the price they sell them for.. I personally dont know how they make any money.

NEVER LIFT!!!!!
 

Kritter

Krittro Campbell
Geoff:

You're ideas are....?? First the "bop bed" and now a coilover monroe. Post the outcome of your buildup I would like to see the "Budget coilover". I think that the can of a regular shock will not hold up to offroad abuse. I have dented the can of a bilstein tapping it on with a mallet. Shocks are the worst place to skimp on, in order to save a couple bucks.

Dont mean to discourage you or anything, but come on now, a nice prerunner shock is not all that expensive and you can find them used all the time on this site...remember its quality you want. Good Luck.

Kris

If you wanted a steak you shouldn't have went to McDonald's!
 

rdc

- users no longer part of the rdc family -
If I bought a full set of SAW or King shocks for my Explorer used from somebody, how much would it cost to rebuild 'em? Like per shock, I guess, I'm just wondering if I can save a little cash.

David - No one of consequence.
 

jeff

Moderator
It's just like building an engine... or a house... or where you eat lunch...

You can build a cheap engine or buy a PEPBOYS crate special for $1000 bucks and slap it between the framerails. You'll never get the same performance you would had you spent $10,000 on a balanced assembly, good rods, bitchin heads, and the proper fuel and ignition system. Porsche is expensive because it's better than Yugo. If the Yugo was as good as a Porsche, there would be no reason for the price difference. A threaded Rancho 5000 shock would still just be a Rancho 5000 shock. Would it work? Maybe. Would it suck? Probably.

Sure, you could do it. Yes it'd be cheap. Cheap stuff generally sucks more than expensive stuff. It's like Beavis and Butthead say, "you gotta have stuff that sucks in order for there to be things that are cool."

You can also run PEPBOYS 50,000 mile tires instead of BFG Bajas. Or sit on a milk-crate instead of spending a few hundred bucks on a Beard or Mastercraft seat.

This is a rich mans sport - plain and simple. Money is the difference between a Class 9 car and the Herbst Truggy. Both have tubular frames. Both have four wheels. Both have an engine. Both use shocks. Which performs better? Which would you rather have?

I'm all for saving money, but there are just some places that you can't skimp and shocks is one of them. And you can't skimp on safety. And cheap transmissions suck. Cheap wheel studs suck. Cheap fasteners suck. Taxes suck.

Geoff, before you think we are all ganging up on you, just remember that the best love is tough love. Keep the ideas coming - if people didn't try new things or present new "radical" ideas... we'd still live in caves and kill dinner with our clubs.

Aloha
 

sirhk100

Well-Known Member
Jeff,
Very well said!!!!!

Geoff,
I agree some of your ideas have been a little out there but don't let the remarks discourage you from trying things or having more ideas. Just make sure you don't skimp on things that may affect the safety of your vehicle or endanger others. I love hearing about people trying new ideas and please post your results so that we can all benefit from your ideas. Remember though, BE SAFE!!!

'99YZ400,
'92 Ford Exploder lifted work in progress,
lifted golf cart
 

ntsqd

Well-Known Member
There is an issue that no one has yet addressed in using sleaves on shocks. That is one of heat transfer. It will be harder to get the heat out of the shock if it has to go thru the small insulating air gap btwn the shock body and the sleave. Depending on how hard you beat on the truck that may or may not be significant. Also, the threads on a shock body will act, to a small degree, as cooling fins just like in the old days. Who here remembers those fins you could buy to put on your shocks ?

TS

"Teach you all I know and you're still stupid"
-- Howdy Lee
 

geoff

Well-Known Member
Wow, you sure know how to make friends...

I VERY obviously have no prerunning/desert experience. Im from New Jersey. There are no deserts there. I build drag cars and circle track cars. Im applying what works in those applications. Apparently not much crosses over. Also, I never said monroes... FWIW i was going to use deutschtechs. God youre an ass.

Oh and its "Bob" (yeah thats a b, not a P) the bed, you illiterate schmuck.

Thanks for the other intelligent posts guys. Im sorry that Kritter becomes so infuriated. I appreceiate all your efforts to educate my belligerent, cheap ass.

My money is tied up between school, rent, and my drag car. The truck will not be made unsafe and it will definatley not be run until it works right. Im not trying to break any records, in fact it will never be raced. I am just going to build a truck to go play in the desert with.

Mathmatics is the language of nature.
 

Jack

Well-Known Member
Re: Wow, you sure know how to make friends...

You don't have to be an ass yourself.

BTW who do you think makes those Doushtech shocks?
 

martininsocal

Well-Known Member
for those that don't remember-sleeves is where the coil over rage all started in offroad. wright made a coil over front end for buggies. there were no sources for a 10" travel coilover, so they make a sleeve that worked over a 2" body fox or bilstein. they worked, but they added weight(sprung) and also contributed to warmer shock temps. the next step was welding a threaded ring to just the part of the shock that supported the top of the coil. fox finally started threaded bodies on the big shocks since they had been doing it on their motorcycle stuff for a decade. as for the rancho statement, rancho make a coilover race shock(don't remember if it was a 5000, 5200, or 7200 series) that was used very successfully on manny equerras 7 truck(remember him?) it used a couple circlips to locate the top of the coil plate, and worked on that truck. as for the price of a coilover today, if you have any machining talent, buy a regular saw and make your own coil seats, that simple. as for the price of the shocks, i will agree that the coil over kit is a bit high, the shock is not, but what will really kill you is the difference between a 2.5" coil vs. a 2" coil. many trucks are using a 2" coil carrier instead of a 2.5" and doing fine.
for the used shock rebuild question, saw's are so easy to rebuild on a garage bench with a vice, there is no need to pay for anything other than the nitrogen charge at a cycle shop if you don't have access to a bottle.

martin

If your gonna go, go BIG
 

Kritter

Krittro Campbell
Re: Wow, you sure know how to make friends...

Before you go calling me illiterate, why don't you go back and spell check your posts. After all you are a student, right? Regardless if it's bop or bob I was poking fun, although you were too naive to see it. Good luck and have fun with your shocks...by the way the Monroe insert was another stab at you too. Nowhere did you mention the type of shocks you were going to use, but since price was your initial complaint, they would not be all that great of shocks to begin with.

I am a student and am in the same situation as you, but with your limited resources (time, money, knowledge) you would think that you would use your time more productively e.g., more work =more pay = good shocks, instead of reinventing the wheel.

Oh yeah and back to the "illiterate schmuck" comment…Last time I checked “Mathmatics” was a common misspelling for Mathematics check Webster’s dictionary. Seeing that you are an engineering student you should be taking plenty of mathematics and it should have been second nature to correctly spell your quote.

Kris


If you wanted a steak you shouldn't have went to McDonald's!
 

Waldo

Safehouse
Re: Wow, you sure know how to make friends...

If you all need help with school, I am a special education teacher!

BRAAAAAAAAP!
 
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