• Forum membership has its advantages....

Why no fuel injection......

450grl

Well-Known Member
....in the Pro truck classes in short-course? Just wondering why the Unlimited 2/4's aren't allowed to run fuel injection? I went from carb to EFI in my Rhino and I like it - when you are upside down and fuel is dribbling out of your carb, it's a little nervewracking. Just on a safety issue alone, I'd think that EFI would be a good thing? Just curious....my hubby and I were talking about this last night, so figured I'd ask. :D
 

Kritter

Krittro Campbell
....in the Pro truck classes in short-course? Just wondering why the Unlimited 2/4's aren't allowed to run fuel injection? I went from carb to EFI in my Rhino and I like it - when you are upside down and fuel is dribbling out of your carb, it's a little nervewracking. Just on a safety issue alone, I'd think that EFI would be a good thing? Just curious....my hubby and I were talking about this last night, so figured I'd ask. :D
people couldnt figure it out so they said it was too easy to cheat with it(traction control) and it got outlawed is the short version. I think it was still corr then or first year of TORC/LOORS. Huseman had it and had to change his motor program to the nascar motor...blessing in disguise. More power, better power, and no FI weight penalty.

It seems Pro 4 should be an unlimited technology and unlimited money class but then you have to remember dirt racing is still redneck for 99% of the people and technology is dumb, kinda like nascar being carb instead of EFI...also redneck.
 

CMI CHUCK

Well-Known Member
I think from a safety point it should not only be legal but mandatory. Last race a friend in PL was on his side door down with no way to get out and fuel pouring down on him waiting to get flipped back on to his wheels. Obviously with FI this would have been avoided.
 

dezerts10

BANG!! BANG!!
I think from a safety point it should not only be legal but mandatory. Last race a friend in PL was on his side door down with no way to get out and fuel pouring down on him waiting to get flipped back on to his wheels. Obviously with FI this would have been avoided.
doesnt it only pump if the power is on? you crash turn off the power and wha la no more fuel pump pumping fuel? just have to worry about what is inthe bowl and thats not that much al though any fuel on me and being on fire would be sketch
 
Fuel Injection equals high pressure, high volume pumps that can spray a lot of fuel a long distance in short order. I'd rather have a few ounces from a float bowl dribble out.

I can't think of many V8 forms of racing that use FI - If it was safer, NASCAR would be using it...
 

NIKAL

Well-Known Member
FYI starting in 2012 NASCAR will be going to Fuel Injection. NASCAR contracted McLaren Electronic Systems with Freescale Semiconductor to develop the whole system. My understanding is that you will receive the ECU's at the track and will only have so many parameters that you can adjust. At any time NASCAR can plug into the system and see what you have done. After the race NASCAR confiscates all the ECU's, sort of how they take all the restrictor plates back after an event. Supposedly if you tamper with the ECU NASCAR will be able to tell and you can expect to be ban from the series for a long time. NASCAR's first FI test was the Thursday prior to the Kentucky race. All teams were welcome to bring a car with the FI set up and test.
 

450grl

Well-Known Member
I think from a safety point it should not only be legal but mandatory. Last race a friend in PL was on his side door down with no way to get out and fuel pouring down on him waiting to get flipped back on to his wheels. Obviously with FI this would have been avoided.
Yeah, this is the scenario I was thinking of.....and I had also heard that Nascar was going to EFI.....but good point about the high pressure pump stuff, too. Interesting....
 

BradleyRacing

Well-Known Member
Not completely sure on this, but didn't Walker Evans and Brendan run fuel injected motors in their Pro 2 and Pro 4 in the CORR series years ago. (Maybe 2000 or 2001?) I thought i heard a story that Walker rolled over in Bark River way back when and the truck landed on the side but was able to stay running with fuel injection. So he cranked the wheels and throttled trying to flip back over, therefore the track crew didn't want to go near the truck... May be a completely bogus story but i thought it was cool nonetheless lol
 

Ron Dalke

Well-Known Member
I ran fuel injection for years in class 10 in fact was the first one to have it in Walt Barinicks class 10 car win I drove for him. It was sure nice to show up to a race and not have to find a place to jet the car and as far as the fuel pump all you need is 60 psi and the conputor has a safty auto shut off built in to it. If the motor shuts off you can have a 3 secound delay or a 15 secount its all programable and vary easy to tune a car.
 

Hesco

Well-Known Member
Corr early days had FI, even for PL. It got repealed after one year in place after it was determined it required to much tech to manage. I remember that the repeal was the final straw for Crowder after they purchased the only approved FI system from Corr at 4K per truck.
 

450grl

Well-Known Member
Being a motor tuner/builder's wife, I see more good than bad with FI - I wonder if LOORRS is considering it in the near future?
 

GRANT@FUNCO

Well-Known Member
All the perphrial arguements aside I.E. safety , tuning , power are all moot . The reason is policing TRACTION CONTROL. I think it is a bogus arguement though because we all use electroninc ignition some just don't utilize the fuel management.

Way back in the CORR days my bro would get out of his 4WD Dodge shaking his head how Jimmy Johnson in a 2WD Chevy could leave him off a corner.>>>>>>>>>>>>> TRACTION CONTROL
 

MeFirst

Well-Known Member
I think Johnny Greaves was using EFI in his P4 a few years ago. Then WSORR decided to outlaw EFI and allowed it that year in grandfathered trucks. That was the same year he built that P2 at the last minute and it wasn't grandfathered. So he had EFI in the P4 and a carb'ed P2.
 

Hesco

Well-Known Member
All the perphrial arguements aside I.E. safety , tuning , power are all moot . The reason is policing TRACTION CONTROL. I think it is a bogus arguement though because we all use electroninc ignition some just don't utilize the fuel management.

Way back in the CORR days my bro would get out of his 4WD Dodge shaking his head how Jimmy Johnson in a 2WD Chevy could leave him off a corner.>>>>>>>>>>>>> TRACTION CONTROL
Grant, I rememeber when Greg started driving that thing. He went from wild man to really fast in a short time. This might be for a different thread, but didn't he have the steering wheel come off in his hands at Crandon, resulting in a pretty spectacular ride?

With regards to the traction control, I too remember them stating that as one of the reasons for getting rid of EFI. I always thought that was a lame excuse.

A couple of years ago at Crandon, I remember watching one of the LeDuc's dominate the P2 race. He was definitely using his own form of traction control - lots of torque and high gear. I remember the sound of the truck coming out of the corners walking away from everyone... sounded like he was lugging it compared to the others, but it was hooked up and pulling away. If your tires are spinning, does spinning them faster help you go faster or just make it seem faster?
 
Last edited:

DailyPedal

Well-Known Member
It is not just "traction control" but the complete mapping of the system...right now, throttle response is controlled by the driver's foot and mechanical linkage...this will not be the case with computer controlled FI. In theory, the move is to try to create parity between the haves and the have-less teams and to save a little money. It is assumed that the cost of the FI system, dedicated personnel to manage/tune it and sophisticated electronics would cost teams significantly more than current carb systems. I am sure there will be FI in the future but for the time being, this is an old issue...
 

crower

Well-Known Member
a bigger reason is the cost .. good race carbs are 900 to 1200$.... a low end efi can get done for 3k$ , then the high end motec or magnetti marelli systems are over 10k for a complete system with up to 16 injector drivers on a v-8. some injectors are 400$ each x 16... ouch .. carbs are fine with me. imagine swapping engines and only having one intake with all the efi on it.. makes a really long day for an engine change. or if your balling youll have 2 0r 3 motec systems and manifolds at all times... could be a 90k investment to the top teams.. no thanks.
 

MARXICO

Well-Known Member
The problem with traction control is after you figure out it is only a crutch and stop using it ,you cant sell it or your competitors will know you were cheating, I have two from my circle track days they hook up to a msd(very effective& easy to install) and cost thousands now I cant sell for even a couple of hundred....kind of a secret you take to your grave
 

450grl

Well-Known Member
a bigger reason is the cost .. good race carbs are 900 to 1200$.... a low end efi can get done for 3k$ , then the high end motec or magnetti marelli systems are over 10k for a complete system with up to 16 injector drivers on a v-8. some injectors are 400$ each x 16... ouch .. carbs are fine with me. imagine swapping engines and only having one intake with all the efi on it.. makes a really long day for an engine change. or if your balling youll have 2 0r 3 motec systems and manifolds at all times... could be a 90k investment to the top teams.. no thanks.
EEK! :eek:

Thanks everyone :D - I knew I had read about it a couple of years ago, but couldn't remember what the issues were.......
 

ASCC DAN

Well-Known Member
I think from a safety point it should not only be legal but mandatory. Last race a friend in PL was on his side door down with no way to get out and fuel pouring down on him waiting to get flipped back on to his wheels. Obviously with FI this would have been avoided.

That's exactly what happened to me at the Firebird event this year. In practice I was pushed off the side of the big finish line table and ended up rolling the truck down the embankment landing on the roof upside down with the drivers side towards the ground. Safety was busy rolling another truck over so it took them a while to get to me. I was watching the fuel as it was running towards me and into the drivers compartment (SUPER SKETCHY situation.) I remember thinking hurry up and roll this thing back over guys, this is not cool.

dp
 

Coastal

Well-Known Member
It seems Pro 4 should be an unlimited technology and unlimited money class but then you have to remember dirt racing is still redneck for 99% of the people and technology is dumb, kinda like nascar being carb instead of EFI...also redneck.
That about sums it up....its 2011, lets see some technology.
 
Top