Will SCORE investigate the Caselli tragedy of errors?

Anger Issues

Well-Known Member
Will SCORE do the right thing to enhance safety in the future, and learn from the complete breakdown of KTM's rider safety effort?
You are making those of us in the Ventura area with brains and compassion look bad. Go away.
 
You are making those of us in the Ventura area with brains and compassion look bad. Go away.
I for one support Steve Rogers post..historically in all forms of auto or motorcycle racing it has been after accidents( especially fatal ones) that innovative changes have been made to improve rider or driver saftey... I didnt know Kurt Kaselli but cannot believe he would be against any investiagtion into his accident if the outcome of the investigation results in greater rider saftey ot improved response time to a fallen rider.
 

sirhk100

Well-Known Member
I think while a desire to have better safety is good, getting it is something entirely different. This last year, a federal firefighter was attempting to locate a wildland fire in New Mexico with 2 other firefighters. They were using ATVs in what amounts to desert. After several hours and they were suppose to be returning home, one doesn't show up. Immediately searches are started. They even knew where he was going to be riding since they had sat nav available to lead them into the hot spot of the fire. It took a week to find his body. Think about that for just a second. This is the federal Gov't who is already using unmanned aerial recon vehicles (drones), helicopters, ground search, etc... And it took a week. If the horror of the possibility of dying while racing in the desert leaves you thinking the loss is too great to bear, don't race in the desert, don't go to desert races to watch, and don't follow desert racing, or any auto racing for that matter, because occasionally cars crashed, bikes go down, and drivers and riders die. And you know what? Every one of them dies doing what they love and they will tell you they died doing what they wanted. Casselli was bike riding God who was living his dream. He died living that dream. He knew the risks and he took them. That makes him a BAMF as far as I am concerned. He hit a cow, bummer deal, but it wasn't like he got shot in his car at a stop light in Compton or run down by a 120 year old man at the Farmers Market in Santa Monica. He lived his life as it was meant to be lived. I doubt he would tell you he was disappointed.
While I see where you're coming from it seems to me that you think what we have now is the best we can do so there's no point in even having a discussion to see if things can be improved when it comes to emergency response procedures and locating injured racers in general. Am I correct in saying that? To me, I'm reading your reply as deal with how it is now or don't race. If that's the case, I'm confused why you wouldn't even be open to the idea of seeing if things can be improved, mistakes can be avoided and maybe a better system developed. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I'm reading yours and many others replies on here. KC died, it sucks and we're all sad, it took a while to find him... It is what it is, move on and race another day is kinda the vibe I'm picking up from many.
 

worldwide

Active Member
If you feel the way you do that's one thing but this isn't the time or place!
This same thing was posted on Vital and it was immeadiatly deleted.
 

Steve Rogers

Well-Known Member
I think while a desire to have better safety is good, getting it is something entirely different. This last year, a federal firefighter was attempting to locate a wildland fire in New Mexico with 2 other firefighters. They were using ATVs in what amounts to desert. After several hours and they were suppose to be returning home, one doesn't show up. Immediately searches are started. They even knew where he was going to be riding since they had sat nav available to lead them into the hot spot of the fire. It took a week to find his body. Think about that for just a second. This is the federal Gov't who is already using unmanned aerial recon vehicles (drones), helicopters, ground search, etc... And it took a week. If the horror of the possibility of dying while racing in the desert leaves you thinking the loss is too great to bear, don't race in the desert, don't go to desert races to watch, and don't follow desert racing, or any auto racing for that matter, because occasionally cars crashed, bikes go down, and drivers and riders die. And you know what? Every one of them dies doing what they love and they will tell you they died doing what they wanted. Casselli was bike riding God who was living his dream. He died living that dream. He knew the risks and he took them. That makes him a BAMF as far as I am concerned. He hit a cow, bummer deal, but it wasn't like he got shot in his car at a stop light in Compton or run down by a 120 year old man at the Farmers Market in Santa Monica. He lived his life as it was meant to be lived. I doubt he would tell you he was disappointed.
You analogy is pretty weak since none of the pertinent information or facts are the same i.e. the firefighter was NOT wearing a locating device and they had to search a far larger area in the middle of a wilderness.... Instead focus on the facts, Kurt was on a known race line and wearing a tracking device reporting his location, had air support, chase personnel and yet despite all this he wasn't found for two hours. It is not an option to dismiss all this as "well we tried real hard" it is an issue of "we failed". Period.

Your pontificating about how death is just part of the deal, that death as just part of the sport ... You know honestly what it gives proof of is that you are a simpleton. Your comments don't pay respect but instead insult the professionals in the sport. We are racing, not playing Russian roulette. Racing is not a game of chance. Kurt didn't calculate the odds and gamble with his life. Kurt used his skill to avoid harm as does any other professional racer. What Kurt had was an accident beyond his control. Its what transpired afterward, where there was control, that need to be focused on. The only acceptable answer is to breakdown step by painful step to see exactly where things went wrong, what was missed and most importantly how can the system be made better so that history doesn't repeat itself.
 

J Prich

Well-Known Member
You analogy is pretty weak since none of the pertinent information or facts are the same i.e. the firefighter was NOT wearing a locating device and they had to search a far larger area in the middle of a wilderness.... Instead focus on the facts, Kurt was on a known race line and wearing a tracking device reporting his location, had air support, chase personnel and yet despite all this he wasn't found for two hours. It is not an option to dismiss all this as "well we tried real hard" it is an issue of "we failed". Period.

Your pontificating about how death is just part of the deal, that death as just part of the sport ... You know honestly what it gives proof of is that you are a simpleton. Your comments don't pay respect but instead insult the professionals in the sport. We are racing, not playing Russian roulette. Racing is not a game of chance. Kurt didn't calculate the odds and gamble with his life. Kurt used his skill to avoid harm as does any other professional racer. What Kurt had was an accident beyond his control. Its what transpired afterward, where there was control, that need to be focused on. The only acceptable answer is to breakdown step by painful step to see exactly where things went wrong, what was missed and most importantly how can the system be made better so that history doesn't repeat itself.
What team do you race with? Just curious.
 

BajaFand

Well-Known Member
You analogy is pretty weak since none of the pertinent information or facts are the same i.e. the firefighter was NOT wearing a locating device and they had to search a far larger area in the middle of a wilderness.... Instead focus on the facts, Kurt was on a known race line and wearing a tracking device reporting his location, had air support, chase personnel and yet despite all this he wasn't found for two hours. It is not an option to dismiss all this as "well we tried real hard" it is an issue of "we failed". Period.

Your pontificating about how death is just part of the deal, that death as just part of the sport ... You know honestly what it gives proof of is that you are a simpleton. Your comments don't pay respect but instead insult the professionals in the sport. We are racing, not playing Russian roulette. Racing is not a game of chance. Kurt didn't calculate the odds and gamble with his life. Kurt used his skill to avoid harm as does any other professional racer. What Kurt had was an accident beyond his control. Its what transpired afterward, where there was control, that need to be focused on. The only acceptable answer is to breakdown step by painful step to see exactly where things went wrong, what was missed and most importantly how can the system be made better so that history doesn't repeat itself.
You have not contributed one single positive thing to this thread that YOU started. You are only negetive. We present you facts of what racing and pitting in Baja is actually like and all you do is insult us. The only explination is that you clearly have no idea what racing down there is like and how poor communication can be even with the all the support in the world and the best technology at your fingertips. Let me tell you, I was down at Coco's Corner pitting for a TT/class 10 team. We had 110W radios, sat phones, and cell phones. Well when our TT didn't show up right on time and the 10 car was 2 hours off schedule nobody panicked and went into crisis mode, we just had to be patient. You can't just start raising hell on the radio to Weatherman or to your other chase teams without reason. You HAVE to be calm and collected in Baja or something is going to go wrong. Also take into account that down at Coco's we could not hear Weatherman, nor could we call him, other chase teams may not answer the sat phone, and the nearest cell phone service is 2.5 hours north in El Rosario. So you effectively have no contact with the rest of the world down there sometimes. And you can't just start hauling ass backwards on the course looking for your car when you aren't even sure if anything is wrong yet.

Baja is very remote and desolate. KC66 went down when his chase chopper was down for fuel, they obviously went looking for him as soon as they took off not even knowing that he may have gone down. He would have definitely put time on the chopper while it was down so they have to catch him. I'm sure it took 10 or 15 minutes for them to even realize he wasn't on the bike anymore. They prob went down course thinking of going where he should have been, then went farther thinking he got farther down course, then backtracked thinking they had gotten too far ahead of him, then maybe realized he had gone down. Meanwhile Turtle found him but because of the remote location couldn't get ahold of anybody without leaving Kurt, and I'm sure the last thing he wanted to do was leave Kurt while he was still breathing. I know these top bike guys must not carry a sat phone, but do they have radios on the bikes at all? If not then a rider has no way to communicate with anybody accept in person.

The fact is that YES, the possibility of serious injury or death is part of desert racing, it is part of all forms of motorsports. Look at the death of Dale Earnhardt. If death was not part of the deal there would be no reason for roll cages, helmets, neck restraints, fuel cells, etc... But we all know that the possibility of death is part of the thrill of desert racing not just for the racers, but for everyone involved in the race. Driving an overloaded chase truck on those narrow roads even in daylight can be a scary endeavor, as it was for us on HWY 1 this year. We were as safe as possible but that didn't stop almost every semi truck coming at us from being on the wrong side of the road almost every time. It's just the way it is. Baja is remote and desolate, it's COMPLETELY NORMAL for your race vehicle to arrive to you 15 min late, 30 min late, or over an hour late before somebody contacts you to let you know what's going on. It's something you have to plan on and expect down there and you can't just assume that someone is dying every time this happens.

What needs to come out of this is a tracking device for the bikes like IRC or SPOT that's used on the cars and trucks with an impact sensor that notifies someone when it goes off. That is the best solution here. I also think that these guys should be carrying sat phones on them. If KC had a sat phone on him or the bike with emergency contact numbers then Turtle could have called for help quicker. Another thing that's truly amazing is that in this remote area there was anyone close to him at all when he went down. I'm sure there were lots of places on this course where the racers saw no spectators or pits for hours out in the middle of nowhere. Just read the Mag7 B1k report and you can understand how difficult it was for them to put pits in certain parts of the course.

You really cannot fault KTM for this, there is nothing they could've done better. This is Baja and it's the nature of the sport. That's why we're all out there.
 

Baja_Seve

Well-Known Member
I think Steve Rogers / 16driver / Steve Achey needs to decide what schizo personality he wants to assume next. There are good meds for bi-polar syndrome.
 

Jeff72

Well-Known Member
oh really? The key word is "found". So just how long did it take? are you counting Turtle? The guy standing around at Baja Pits that they asked to ride up the course while Ivan shagged butt back to 790 so he could ride down it? Truth hurts Dailey. KTM totally screwed this up. btw, Turtle didn't Find Kurt much before Brabec did at 17:00.

You guys amaze me with your false bravado about how this is racing.... it s pathetic.


I would like to say something here, even though I am new to racing and usually just keep my mouth shut, but...

To start:
I am completely new to off road racing.
I am new to building a truck for off road racing.
I have never been to the baja, nor even set one foot in Mexico.

What I have done.
I have spent many years off road in northern Canada I. Various configurations of trucks, bikes, and equipment.
I have many times worked in remote locations - no help for hundreds of miles. no roads. Nothing period.
I have many times flown into remote locations - again no help. Nothing. You on your own. Period.
Let me explain that. If you need help in some of these areas. It could be days, weeks, or months for help to arrive. If they find you. And believe me, I can not emphasize how hard it is to fins someone on the ground by air, especially if there is any type of foliage around them.
Ok. So that has nothing to do with the race or the risks of this race. Bear with me here...this may take a bit to make my point. I just wanted the OP to understand I have an idea or risk and bravado and understand the "game of chance" before I start.

All of what I am about to say is: 1) in my opinion 2) meant with the highest regard for the fallen rider this year, and to his familly.


One of the reasons I have, from a distance, fallen in love with the idea of running this race, is the challenge of the race and beating the desert itself. We are by no means looking for a podium finish. Just to beat the Baja and ALL of the challenges it represents. It will be a marker in my own life personally - not that much different than the achievement felt by someone who conquers Everest, albeit a completely different challenge altogether.

That said I, being completely new to this, and never having competed in this race, "think" that I have a good idea of the risks involved and the fortitude that will be required to go the distance. Yes I could get killed. I acknowledge that. I could get hopelessly lost. I acknowledge that. I could get seriously injured or hurt. I acknowledge that. Yes I could write off the truck and leave there empty handed. I acknowledge that. Do I want to be as safe as possible with the best contigency plans should the unthinkable happen. You bet I do.


False bravado? I'm not so sure that it is false.
I am actually not that bold of a person.
I like to plan. Calculate and minimize the risk in any event, job, or action I take. (As much as humanly possible). Can I eliminate all obstacles and be guaranteed safety and a response from someone. No I can not. Therefore I take a risk in my actions what ever they may be. That is for anything in life.

"Kurt did not calculate the odds and gamble with his life" He very much did that. He did exactly that. By the very definition of the term. With no difference from any other race driver out there, no matter what the race or sanctioning body, auto racing, off road racing, aircraft racing, or any other type of race with a finish line and one winner. He took a chance, not any different than that of a football player, rugby player, or any other sport where one can get seriously injured or killed in an accident.

Kurt used his god given skills to mitigate the calculated risks as any other person would do in his or her given profession. Lets not forget. From what i understand this was his professional job. And he along with his crew did it to the best of their abilities. And sometimes life is just not fair. Lets get that out there right now. No matter how good the planning, the execution of the plan the follow through, sometimes life just makes its own plan for you: life is not fair. And there is nothing you can do about it.

Bravado.
It takes that extra little kick to get yourself, knowing the risks, to take the first step and do Something that you know is a calculated risk. That is called Courage and belief in yourself. Some call it bravado.

False Bravado? I do not know the man in question here or the KTM crew, anyone at SCORE, or any of the others race teams, big or small like us. But at some point in time, they all has to be sitting there or laying awake having the same thoughts that each and every one has had leading up to the race.... "What if?" And I mean this with all due respect to the rider who was killed in this years race, and to the familly.

A team such as KTM had chase crews, helicopters, radios, GPS, and a SPOT. They were about as prepared as can be.
It is very unfortunate that they could not, did not, get to him in time. And knowing what I already do in life, I know in my bones, that everyone of those crew members has already had the shuddering thoughts and second guessed themselves at this point, " what if I had just done this differently?" "What if I had left a few minutes earlier when we started to wonder" " what if had just pushed the fuel situation another 30 minutes and not refuelled right then". "What if.." You can not sit on the side lines and play Monday morning quarter back. I know we all do it at times. But you just can not in these situations. Even if you were the ones there. You did your best and it was an unfortunate accident. We are humans and can only do so much with what we hace for resources at that time and place. You can learn from it. But you can not assign blame to it. Not in a business as risky as this.

Blaming those guys for a tragic accident is absolutely wrong. It is shameful, and quite frankly a low thing to do.
"KTM screwed this up"
No. That is akin to blaming the farmer for letting his cow wander loose during a race.

Again, False Bravado? I interject that it takes alot of bravado.
You have to have some sense of bravado to do this type of thing. It's what separates the race drivers from the rest of the people quite frankly. It takes guts. It really does. There are many analogies I could make to this for many various walks in life.

I can only assume that Mr Casselli had that type of spirit. Had the spirit of a pioneer. Had the heart of a winner. Had the heart of a competitor that was willing to go that extra mile beyond what most are willing to do. I heard a quote somewhere recently that may help in understanding (what I believe was in is soul) "A successful winner is someone willing to do what the loser would not". That is what made him succsfull. That is what made him better at his profession than the others. He had a talent that the others did not have. He did what others would not. And accepted it. (Again, I did not know him, I am just assuming this about him from his achievements and what I have read about the man) and I mean all of this in the most respectful way possible to the familly. I feel for them I really do.


All that said, what about the small teams? What about the "lone guy" on the ATV or motorbike that is there by him self following his dream. No chase crew. No helicopter. Nothing. On his own, by his own wits and courage/bravado. If he so chooses to do this on his own, then so be it. I am not endorsing it or renouncing this. But he will be out there on his own. Very much a calculated risk.
Can something else be done to make it safer for him logistically? Yes I'm sure there are many ways. Can they all be done with in a financially attainable way for the lone rider to race? Probably not. Personally, my hat is off to those guys.

What about us, my race? For me this this race is expensive. There will be only two of us. Each sharing the driving and navigating. If we write off the truck at race mile 5, so be it. If we finish the race, it will be a dream come true for me.
We are a small team, with limited resources. Can more be done for us? Yes, I'm sure there is. We will not have a support team chasing after us. We will use bf goodrich and mag 7 pits for our only support through out. Does that change any of the other circumstances and calculated risks that can arise? No. Can we afford a much higher entry fee? No. The only other option for us is to not race. If by chance something terrible happens to us, can we blame score or anyone else? No. It rests on us. We knew the challenge, knew the risks, and chose to compete. It is not right or wrong to anyone else. It simply is what we chose to do and quite frankly no one else's business except ours, and our families.

We have been following RDC for about a year now. I can not believe some of the things people say on here. About SCORE, about Roger Norman, and about each other. To be quite honest it sounds like a whine fest a lot of the time.

Just a thought from a newcomer to the game, but if you want to change something, don't start off by telling the sanctioning body "I Hate Score" or "Robby Gordon is a cheater" or what is score going to do about this...
And in my opinion, In a public forum to help and support this sport, don't start casting blame around about how some team "KTM really screwed up". And I wonder if you really are part of any race or anything in life that is a risk. If you are, and have some insightful ideas of how to mitigate this risk, or improve the race, or anything that can help. I wish you would come forward with it. Personally I would love to hear them as we prepare. Maybe you have a good idea. But just sitting back and pointing a finger is not a solution to anything. "Break it down step by painful step". Good idea. And I am sure that the team will be doing just that. So where is the question here? Are they to come forward within one week, and answer to you about it?

Instead, might I suggest:
Why not sart out with, "Hey, anyone have new ideas how help a downed rider who is injured?" I'll bet you get a lot of smart people here who have experience replying back with some good ideas. And if someone has an idea, no matter how far fetched, hear it out. If you don't think it it will work, state your reason with respect. Maybe better communication systems for the teams as technology advances will help. Again, a calculated risk, as even new tech radios can fail and leave you stranded. There might be a thousand ideas come forward, and maybe only one is a good idea, and maybe that one good idea is the one that saves a life. But doing it the way you are with the anger and blame will not help one person in any future race.

Drones? If i may, iahve some knowledge in this area. I doubt that is a viable option. The cost of operating enough drones to cover 1000 miles would end the race. The entry fees alone would stop the race. I do not believe this is a practical solution to any problem of coverage. They are simply to expensive to oprate. (Don't forget, each one has an operator at a base somewhere operating too, and, mostly they are not yet certified for civil use beyond line of sight) maybe in the future it will work. The lanyard idea sounds good to me. And there already various configurations of this available that might work with a little engineering.


"Racing is not a game of chance?" I think personally, it is the biggest game of chance, fortune, and misfortune there is.


I truly hope I have not offended the familly in anything I have said, and appologize if I have and offer my best wishes to them and hope they can cherish the good memories. To be perfectly honest, I hope the familly never reads this line of posts.
 
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Steve Rogers

Well-Known Member
I think Steve Rogers / 16driver / Steve Achey needs to decide what schizo personality he wants to assume next. There are good meds for bi-polar syndrome.
Cool so I assume that you know that I've raced 21, 22, 40, 11, 16, 10, flew as spotter for 1x and acted as crew and chase for various other efforts.


Ya You're right, I have no business commenting on this i should leave it to the real men like you.
 

Baja_Seve

Well-Known Member
Cool so I assume that you know that I've race 21, 22, 40, 11, 16, 10, flew as spotter for 1x and acted as crew and chase for various other efforts.

So I guess I have no business commenting on this.
Meh. Nothing upstanding, your negativity and condescending posts further reduces your credibility, Achey. You have nothing constructive to add, only trolling.

Cool it's nice to see I have already gotten my own stalker. Anyway just the fairly recent stuff, second place Baja 500 2008 c40, second place place Baja 1000 c22 and I've raced into the top 5 in class 21 with a 4th in the 2010 500 and what should have been a 3rd at the 250 until we had 2 disputed VCP's rulings. Cars 3rd at the pci 300 this year and 7 th at this years 500 in 16. Btw my car would have beaten both your entries instead of just the protruck if not for some bad luck. But that's racing.

So what's next do you want to measure dicks? Gfy dude. .
 

Steve Rogers

Well-Known Member
Is improving safety in Baja that threatening to you baja seve/Steve Borgeois?

(Idk if that is actually your real name, i got it off the CS email you wrote this week accusing the 1x of cheating by landing the chopper at 788 to help Colton. btw, you want me to forward that for you to Johnny or were you just talking crap?)
 

Baja_Seve

Well-Known Member
Is improving safety in Baja that threatening to you Steve Borgeois?

(Idk if that is actually your real name, i got it off the CS email you wrote this week accusing the 1x of cheating by landing the chopper at 788 to help Colton. btw, you want me to forward that for you to Johnny or were you just talking crap?)
Really Achey? Not threatening at all. Please forward anything you want to Johnny Campbell and JCR, especially since they pitted us at this race. I have been racing and riding in Baja since 1978. That's what you want to retort with? Get a life, loser. And get my name right. Your idle threats are, meh.

I have been involved with SCORE race planning and advisement for the Baja 1000 from July 2013 on. I forwarded my inputs and suggestions to SCORE and their official forum, Score Live. I personally met with Roger Norman and his Score staff to reach solutions to past Baja race moto problems.

Steve Achey: What did YOU do to suggest and improve Score moto racing? Anxiously waiting your response to your constructive improvements to Score moto racing. You have added nothing to this thread, only negativity, just like the RDC thread from Jan 2013. NOTHING. Whine and troll on RDC, Steve Rogers / Steve Achey / 16driver

Please report me to the Johnny Campbell Police. ASAP!
 

Baja_Seve

Well-Known Member
My 10 cents, based on facts and my opinion.

I think Score did everything they possibly could.

They implemented a Spot3 live tracking system, which allowed LIVE tracking of bikes. No previous Score Baja moto race did that FOR BIKES (one exception: a failed IRC attempt at SF250 some years back). Every Score race prior to this had no ACTIVE tracking.

Spot report received that 2x bike not moving (Spot3 update). First report shouldn't be of concern - any bikes' Spots showing non-movement is common and expected at any Score race. Do you react to every Spot report that bike is not moving? No concern, you would assume bike is stopped, being fixed, if emergency required, rider would hit one of the emergency buttons. Remember, Spot was never publicaly available to the public prior to this B1K.

The question that is being asked is if the rider crashes, is incapable of pressing the buttons, what happens? Dakar uses Sentinel, which detects abrupt stops. Baja: Unknown, untested. Rider crashes, incapable of alerting Spot buttons, nothing happens. And if someone happens on scene, is he aware of the Spot functionality?

My humble opinion of the recent case: Score asks a Baja Pits (last pit before Spot hit) pit to scout the last location of 2x and they send out a rider. Say, that rider finds 2x. At this point, there are legal and medical issues what happens next. YES, they're are. Put yourself in the position of that "scout" rider sent out to search for 2x. And what he finds. Very sensitive. I can understand that, I can understand the delay - explanation of medical details.

This is why I am not clamoring for a demand to this. It will come out. And I'll wait for that.
 

PAB

40's rock!
I would like to say something here, even though I am new to racing and usually just keep my mouth shut, but...

To start:
I am completely new to off road racing.
I am new to building a truck for off road racing.
I have never been to the baja, nor even set one foot in Mexico.

What I have done.
I have spent many years off road in northern Canada I. Various configurations of trucks, bikes, and equipment.
I have many times worked in remote locations - no help for hundreds of miles. no roads. Nothing period.
I have many times flown into remote locations - again no help. Nothing. You on your own. Period.
Let me explain that. If you need help in some of these areas. It could be days, weeks, or months for help to arrive. If they find you. And believe me, I can not emphasize how hard it is to fins someone on the ground by air, especially if there is any type of foliage around them.
Ok. So that has nothing to do with the race or the risks of this race. Bear with me here...this may take a bit to make my point. I just wanted the OP to understand I have an idea or risk and bravado and understand the "game of chance" before I start.

All of what I am about to say is: 1) in my opinion 2) meant with the highest regard for the fallen rider this year, and to his familly.


One of the reasons I have, from a distance, fallen in love with the idea of running this race, is the challenge of the race and beating the desert itself. We are by no means looking for a podium finish. Just to beat the Baja and ALL of the challenges it represents. It will be a marker in my own life personally - not that much different than the achievement felt by someone who conquers Everest, albeit a completely different challenge altogether.

That said I, being completely new to this, and never having competed in this race, "think" that I have a good idea of the risks involved and the fortitude that will be required to go the distance. Yes I could get killed. I acknowledge that. I could get hopelessly lost. I acknowledge that. I could get seriously injured or hurt. I acknowledge that. Yes I could write off the truck and leave there empty handed. I acknowledge that. Do I want to be as safe as possible with the best contigency plans should the unthinkable happen. You bet I do.


False bravado? I'm not so sure that it is false.
I am actually not that bold of a person.
I like to plan. Calculate and minimize the risk in any event, job, or action I take. (As much as humanly possible). Can I eliminate all obstacles and be guaranteed safety and a response from someone. No I can not. Therefore I take a risk in my actions what ever they may be. That is for anything in life.

"Kurt did not calculate the odds and gamble with his life" He very much did that. He did exactly that. By the very definition of the term. With no difference from any other race driver out there, no matter what the race or sanctioning body, auto racing, off road racing, aircraft racing, or any other type of race with a finish line and one winner. He took a chance, not any different than that of a football player, rugby player, or any other sport where one can get seriously injured or killed in an accident.

Kurt used his god given skills to mitigate the calculated risks as any other person would do in his or her given profession. Lets not forget. From what i understand this was his professional job. And he along with his crew did it to the best of their abilities. And sometimes life is just not fair. Lets get that out there right now. No matter how good the planning, the execution of the plan the follow through, sometimes life just makes its own plan for you: life is not fair. And there is nothing you can do about it.

Bravado.
It takes that extra little kick to get yourself, knowing the risks, to take the first step and do Something that you know is a calculated risk. That is called Courage and belief in yourself. Some call it bravado.

False Bravado? I do not know the man in question here or the KTM crew, anyone at SCORE, or any of the others race teams, big or small like us. But at some point in time, they all has to be sitting there or laying awake having the same thoughts that each and every one has had leading up to the race.... "What if?" And I mean this with all due respect to the rider who was killed in this years race, and to the familly.

A team such as KTM had chase crews, helicopters, radios, GPS, and a SPOT. They were about as prepared as can be.
It is very unfortunate that they could not, did not, get to him in time. And knowing what I already do in life, I know in my bones, that everyone of those crew members has already had the shuddering thoughts and second guessed themselves at this point, " what if I had just done this differently?" "What if I had left a few minutes earlier when we started to wonder" " what if had just pushed the fuel situation another 30 minutes and not refuelled right then". "What if.." You can not sit on the side lines and play Monday morning quarter back. I know we all do it at times. But you just can not in these situations. Even if you were the ones there. You did your best and it was an unfortunate accident. We are humans and can only do so much with what we hace for resources at that time and place. You can learn from it. But you can not assign blame to it. Not in a business as risky as this.

Blaming those guys for a tragic accident is absolutely wrong. It is shameful, and quite frankly a low thing to do.
"KTM screwed this up"
No. That is akin to blaming the farmer for letting his cow wander loose during a race.

Again, False Bravado? I interject that it takes alot of bravado.
You have to have some sense of bravado to do this type of thing. It's what separates the race drivers from the rest of the people quite frankly. It takes guts. It really does. There are many analogies I could make to this for many various walks in life.

I can only assume that Mr Casselli had that type of spirit. Had the spirit of a pioneer. Had the heart of a winner. Had the heart of a competitor that was willing to go that extra mile beyond what most are willing to do. I heard a quote somewhere recently that may help in understanding (what I believe was in is soul) "A successful winner is someone willing to do what the loser would not". That is what made him succsfull. That is what made him better at his profession than the others. He had a talent that the others did not have. He did what others would not. And accepted it. (Again, I did not know him, I am just assuming this about him from his achievements and what I have read about the man) and I mean all of this in the most respectful way possible to the familly. I feel for them I really do.


All that said, what about the small teams? What about the "lone guy" on the ATV or motorbike that is there by him self following his dream. No chase crew. No helicopter. Nothing. On his own, by his own wits and courage/bravado. If he so chooses to do this on his own, then so be it. I am not endorsing it or renouncing this. But he will be out there on his own. Very much a calculated risk.
Can something else be done to make it safer for him logistically? Yes I'm sure there are many ways. Can they all be done with in a financially attainable way for the lone rider to race? Probably not. Personally, my hat is off to those guys.

What about us, my race? For me this this race is expensive. There will be only two of us. Each sharing the driving and navigating. If we write off the truck at race mile 5, so be it. If we finish the race, it will be a dream come true for me.
We are a small team, with limited resources. Can more be done for us? Yes, I'm sure there is. We will not have a support team chasing after us. We will use bf goodrich and mag 7 pits for our only support through out. Does that change any of the other circumstances and calculated risks that can arise? No. Can we afford a much higher entry fee? No. The only other option for us is to not race. If by chance something terrible happens to us, can we blame score or anyone else? No. It rests on us. We knew the challenge, knew the risks, and chose to compete. It is not right or wrong to anyone else. It simply is what we chose to do and quite frankly no one else's business except ours, and our families.

We have been following RDC for about a year now. I can not believe some of the things people say on here. About SCORE, about Roger Norman, and about each other. To be quite honest it sounds like a whine fest a lot of the time.

Just a thought from a newcomer to the game, but if you want to change something, don't start off by telling the sanctioning body "I Hate Score" or "Robby Gordon is a cheater" or what is score going to do about this...
And in my opinion, In a public forum to help and support this sport, don't start casting blame around about how some team "KTM really screwed up". And I wonder if you really are part of any race or anything in life that is a risk. If you are, and have some insightful ideas of how to mitigate this risk, or improve the race, or anything that can help. I wish you would come forward with it. Personally I would love to hear them as we prepare. Maybe you have a good idea. But just sitting back and pointing a finger is not a solution to anything. "Break it down step by painful step". Good idea. And I am sure that the team will be doing just that. So where is the question here? Are they to come forward within one week, and answer to you about it?

Instead, might I suggest:
Why not sart out with, "Hey, anyone have new ideas how help a downed rider who is injured?" I'll bet you get a lot of smart people here who have experience replying back with some good ideas. And if someone has an idea, no matter how far fetched, hear it out. If you don't think it it will work, state your reason with respect. Maybe better communication systems for the teams as technology advances will help. Again, a calculated risk, as even new tech radios can fail and leave you stranded. There might be a thousand ideas come forward, and maybe only one is a good idea, and maybe that one good idea is the one that saves a life. But doing it the way you are with the anger and blame will not help one person in any future race.

Drones? If i may, iahve some knowledge in this area. I doubt that is a viable option. The cost of operating enough drones to cover 1000 miles would end the race. The entry fees alone would stop the race. I do not believe this is a practical solution to any problem of coverage. They are simply to expensive to oprate. (Don't forget, each one has an operator at a base somewhere operating too, and, mostly they are not yet certified for civil use beyond line of sight) maybe in the future it will work. The lanyard idea sounds good to me. And there already various configurations of this available that might work with a little engineering.


"Racing is not a game of chance?" I think personally, it is the biggest game of chance, fortune, and misfortune there is.


I truly hope I have not offended the familly in anything I have said, and appologize if I have and offer my best wishes to them and hope they can cherish the good memories. To be perfectly honest, I hope the familly never reads this line of posts.
I am impressed by the effort you took to make this post whether anyone agrees or disagrees. I also think there is a lot to ponder in this post

I pray for Kurt's family, team and friends. RIP66
 

JDDurfey

Well-Known Member
You have not contributed one single positive thing to this thread that YOU started. You are only negetive. We present you facts of what racing and pitting in Baja is actually like and all you do is insult us. The only explination is that you clearly have no idea what racing down there is like and how poor communication can be even with the all the support in the world and the best technology at your fingertips. Let me tell you, I was down at Coco's Corner pitting for a TT/class 10 team. We had 110W radios, sat phones, and cell phones. Well when our TT didn't show up right on time and the 10 car was 2 hours off schedule nobody panicked and went into crisis mode, we just had to be patient. You can't just start raising hell on the radio to Weatherman or to your other chase teams without reason. You HAVE to be calm and collected in Baja or something is going to go wrong. Also take into account that down at Coco's we could not hear Weatherman, nor could we call him, other chase teams may not answer the sat phone, and the nearest cell phone service is 2.5 hours north in El Rosario. So you effectively have no contact with the rest of the world down there sometimes. And you can't just start hauling ass backwards on the course looking for your car when you aren't even sure if anything is wrong yet.

Baja is very remote and desolate. KC66 went down when his chase chopper was down for fuel, they obviously went looking for him as soon as they took off not even knowing that he may have gone down. He would have definitely put time on the chopper while it was down so they have to catch him. I'm sure it took 10 or 15 minutes for them to even realize he wasn't on the bike anymore. They prob went down course thinking of going where he should have been, then went farther thinking he got farther down course, then backtracked thinking they had gotten too far ahead of him, then maybe realized he had gone down. Meanwhile Turtle found him but because of the remote location couldn't get ahold of anybody without leaving Kurt, and I'm sure the last thing he wanted to do was leave Kurt while he was still breathing. I know these top bike guys must not carry a sat phone, but do they have radios on the bikes at all? If not then a rider has no way to communicate with anybody accept in person.

The fact is that YES, the possibility of serious injury or death is part of desert racing, it is part of all forms of motorsports. Look at the death of Dale Earnhardt. If death was not part of the deal there would be no reason for roll cages, helmets, neck restraints, fuel cells, etc... But we all know that the possibility of death is part of the thrill of desert racing not just for the racers, but for everyone involved in the race. Driving an overloaded chase truck on those narrow roads even in daylight can be a scary endeavor, as it was for us on HWY 1 this year. We were as safe as possible but that didn't stop almost every semi truck coming at us from being on the wrong side of the road almost every time. It's just the way it is. Baja is remote and desolate, it's COMPLETELY NORMAL for your race vehicle to arrive to you 15 min late, 30 min late, or over an hour late before somebody contacts you to let you know what's going on. It's something you have to plan on and expect down there and you can't just assume that someone is dying every time this happens.

What needs to come out of this is a tracking device for the bikes like IRC or SPOT that's used on the cars and trucks with an impact sensor that notifies someone when it goes off. That is the best solution here. I also think that these guys should be carrying sat phones on them. If KC had a sat phone on him or the bike with emergency contact numbers then Turtle could have called for help quicker. Another thing that's truly amazing is that in this remote area there was anyone close to him at all when he went down. I'm sure there were lots of places on this course where the racers saw no spectators or pits for hours out in the middle of nowhere. Just read the Mag7 B1k report and you can understand how difficult it was for them to put pits in certain parts of the course.

You really cannot fault KTM for this, there is nothing they could've done better. This is Baja and it's the nature of the sport. That's why we're all out there.

VERY VERY well said. I tried to explain much of this to Mr. Rogers earlier in this thread, but he doesn't seem to get it. It appears to me that if he spilled his coffee in his lap upon leaving the McDonalds drive through it would not be his fault and he would want a million bucks. Or maybe we should fence the whe race course and patrol it shooting all the stray animals that wander on to it.

Kurt Caselli's passing is a tragedy as it is with any racer that dies. I don't think we should be pointing fingers and asking who was at fault, or accusing anyone of being negligent. We will never know if had he been found immediately if he would have survived, and what kind of long term damage would there have been. I personally don't want to live in a wheelchair or be a vegetable, but would rather due doing what I love. I can't speak for Kurt, but I wonder what he would have wanted. Knowing what I know about him I imagine that he wouldn't want anyone to blame anyone else for his untimely accident.
 

mikerd400

Well-Known Member
Dan McMillin said it best, at what cost to the racers. The Dakar Rally has a great system, but the registration fee is extremely expensive. Coming up with en expensive solution will most likely make it too expensive to race for a lot of racers.

RIP KC66!
 
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