2020 NORRA tech rules posted

Team Todo En

Well-Known Member
No shocks through the floor for Pioneer 4x4...so Boyd is bumping up a class?
I saw his rig at SEMA and those are some nice Fox shocks coming up from the axle perch to the roll cage.
I read a post on another site that they were going to make any necessary changes to stay in the class. They did a complete tear down and rebuild after the M1K as well as a new paint theme. The Bronco is really looking good. Probably taking a little break before the next rebuild. Their motor (347) needs to be swapped as well to be class legal, so there's some real work to do there along with the expenditures of making the changes.
 

Chris_Wilson

Well-Known Member
Chris - Is there a version of that PDF that shows the rule changes in a different text color? Or a Cliffs Notes version of what's different for 2020?

Thanks!

Aloha
The last pages of the rule books have a change history. Cliff notes of what changed.
 

Chris_Wilson

Well-Known Member
I read a post on another site that they were going to make any necessary changes to stay in the class. They did a complete tear down and rebuild after the M1K as well as a new paint theme. The Bronco is really looking good. Probably taking a little break before the next rebuild. Their motor (347) needs to be swapped as well to be class legal, so there's some real work to do there along with the expenditures of making the changes.
My understanding is Boyd is remounting his shocks to comply with the updated Pioneer rules. Additionally, the Pioneer engine rules were conflicting. An update to the rules, version 3.19 will be posted soon. A 302 is allowed to be built up to 350 cu in so a 347 is fine. A 351 can be over bored up to 363. But a 302 cannot be built as a 363.

Also there is an update to the general rules coming soon (version 3.1). The early staging penalty is increased from 2min/min to 10 min/min to further discourage racing to the special stage to stage early and gain track position and take the penalty. And to further reduce this practice, NORRA will now start enforcing a 75mph speed zone during all transits including first and last transits of the day.
 

Ajam1

Active Member
I read the NORRA timing rules, they are in fact forcing you to check-in ON your minute, by giving you a 10 minute penalty for every minute your early and 1 minute for every minute you are late. As long as the average speed (time given in transit) is set low enough to give more then enough time then that should deter people from speeding and trying to gain "track position"

However, what I saw last April, especially on the last day were cars getting in line 1 or 2 minutes before their start times and blocking others from starting on time or taking the early penalty, thus creating time between their start time and the car in front of them. This caused a lot of problems; guys bumping and pushing their way in, and a whole lot of BS. It was seriously stupid! I say make the penalty 20 min for being early...

I actually did that, seeing what everyone ells was doing I thought in that moment it must be a good idea, so I got in line and let a minute go by so I had clean air. As soon as we left the line I realized I screwed myself by taking the penalty. I lost that stage by roughly 1 min 11 sec.
 

jeff

Moderator
The last pages of the rule books have a change history. Cliff notes of what changed.
Version 3.18
October 19, 2019
 Added a multi-cylinder motorcycle class intended for adventure bikes.
 Overhauled Pioneer Era Truck and 4x4 classes to bring the classes closer to what was run during the Era
including engine restrictions.
 Restricted engines for Legend Era trucks and 4x4’s.
 Eliminated fuel injection on Pioneer buggy and cars.
 Updates to Safari rules

Aloha
 

Chris_Wilson

Well-Known Member
Federal and local law enforcement patrol the roads and perform enforcement. There are highway sections with 110 kph speed limits. There is traffic that flows at or above this speed in some areas.

The NORRA hard core speeding penalties above 75 mph on the transits are not intended to replace what the law enforcement is doing but it is intended to put a halt to some of the very high speeds that have been reported during transits. Racers are still expected to follow all highway laws during the transits (which are less than 75 mph). A few guys doing 100 mph+ not only is dangerous to others on these public roads but also risks the ability to continue being able to hold these events.
Getting caught at those speeds may result in a DQ going forward.

In general, the transit times are set so if you drive at normal/legal speeds you have an extra half hour before your stage window opens. At least that is the goal.
 

LantanaTX

Well-Known Member
Federal and local law enforcement patrol the roads and perform enforcement. There are highway sections with 110 kph speed limits. There is traffic that flows at or above this speed in some areas.

The NORRA hard core speeding penalties above 75 mph on the transits are not intended to replace what the law enforcement is doing but it is intended to put a halt to some of the very high speeds that have been reported during transits. Racers are still expected to follow all highway laws during the transits (which are less than 75 mph). A few guys doing 100 mph+ not only is dangerous to others on these public roads but also risks the ability to continue being able to hold these events.
Getting caught at those speeds may result in a DQ going forward.

In general, the transit times are set so if you drive at normal/legal speeds you have an extra half hour before your stage window opens. At least that is the goal.
I agree Chris. I assume NORRA will make the transits a 75mph speed zone programmed into Stella so that penalties can easily be enforced?
 

Chris_Wilson

Well-Known Member
I agree Chris. I assume NORRA will make the transits a 75mph speed zone programmed into Stella so that penalties can easily be enforced?
Yes, Eliseo will talk to Stella and request each transit be made into a speed zone. Very easy to enforce, penalties auto calculated.
 

Zambo

Well-Known Member
I read the NORRA timing rules, they are in fact forcing you to check-in ON your minute, by giving you a 10 minute penalty for every minute your early and 1 minute for every minute you are late.
Pretty sure there is still a window for starting based on minimum and maximum time for the transit.
 

Chris_Wilson

Well-Known Member
Pretty sure there is still a window for starting based on minimum and maximum time for the transit.
You have to check in ON the exact minute for the start each day and for the first special of the day. Successive stages on the day have the 30 minute window.
Same as it's always been.
 

landshark

Well-Known Member
I read a post on another site that they were going to make any necessary changes to stay in the class. They did a complete tear down and rebuild after the M1K as well as a new paint theme. The Bronco is really looking good. Probably taking a little break before the next rebuild. Their motor (347) needs to be swapped as well to be class legal, so there's some real work to do there along with the expenditures of making the changes.
I have finally been able to sit down and run through the new rules, and then the revision to the new rules. It would seem besides the rear shocks the rest of the roadblocks for them have been eliminated through the newest rule revision. Ie. Their engine is magically now compliant and the removal of “no wheel spacers” to allow them to run their wheel of choice.
 

jeff

Moderator
Their engine is magically now compliant...
Do you take issue with them running a 347" motor? If so... why? Hasn't a 351" motor + overbore been legal since the inception of this Class?

Aloha
 

michael.gonzalez

Well-Known Member
Do you take issue with them running a 347" motor? If so... why? Hasn't a 351" motor + overbore been legal since the inception of this Class?

Aloha
See post #23

"...Pioneer engine rules were conflicting. An update to the rules, version 3.19 will be posted soon. A 302 is allowed to be built up to 350 cu in so a 347 is fine. A 351 can be over bored up to 363. But a 302 cannot be built as a 363. "
 

landshark

Well-Known Member
Do you take issue with them running a 347" motor? If so... why? Hasn't a 351" motor + overbore been legal since the inception of this Class?

Aloha
I have no issues with them running a 347 (302 stroker) as it now seems to be legal since the new revisions to the new rules now accommodate their engine. Indeed, the 351 has apparently always been legal but is now limited to a 363 stroke, which happens to exclude my engine - which I just rebuilt this summer so that I had time to test before winter set in and to get ready for the April 2020 race. I absolutely don't understand the limitation on the stroke for the ford 302 and 351. The real limitation is and always will be the suspension which is what the original rule revisions started out to define. You can have 1000 HP, it won't matter in a short wheel base limited travel Bronco. ( I can't speak for other makes or models in Pioneer 4x4).

How are they going to determine a 351 vs 357 vs 383 vs 408 vs 427 during contingency/inspection? I am relatively new to things so maybe there is a super quick and simple way to do so and they will be checking every vehicle, in every class that requires it.

My issue is that there were substantial changes made to the Pioneer 4x4 class rules that go well beyond a relatively simple and/or straightforward tire size, bump stop, shock etc. and with less than 6 months to go before the next race. It would have been great to see a tiered approach to implementing the new rules. Define all of the class rules for enforcement at the end of 2020. Enforce the suspension and shock rules for the 2020 M1K, enforce the powerplant and transmission rules for the NORRA 500 in 2020. It would not only give recent participates some time to budget for the big ticket items, but it would also give the new builds some runway to know whats coming up. I know of 3 other builds for the Pioneer class (a 69 Blazer and two early Broncos) and these new rules caused confusion and consternation as they have been well underway for over a year. Only 1 of the new builds would have been ready for 2020 but all three have already invested in things that will require replacement to meet the new rules. All three have concerns that the changes they make right now will be for nothing come next year - they all want to run in Pioneer, they have no desire to run in legends or any other class.

Don't get me wrong, I totally understand what is trying to be accomplished with the new Pioneer 4x4 class rules and I applaud the effort of trying to define the class to keep the Pioneers of the sport true pioneers. I am just not happy with the way the rules were implemented and to be honest and self serving, they way it leaves me out of the class that I purpose built my bronco for...

Regardless of the politics involved, I am registered and paid for 2020 M1K. We might be running in a class by ourselves but we will have a great time with awesome folks and be in Baja.
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
This is the type of problem that arises when cars are built with a modern twist to race in a vintage class. But the ship on truly vintage racing sailed a long time ago and it would be very hard to reel that back in without creating what amounts to havoc with car owners who built new 'vintage' cars. This was actually talked about years ago when the original rules were being written as to how to handle this problem. Back then, it was felt that eventually there would be enough real vintage cars running to be able to break up the two for those that didn't really meet the definition of the class. In reality, what has happened is more new cars have been built than old cars being restored.
 

jeff

Moderator
I have no issues with them running a 347 (302 stroker) as it now seems to be legal since the new revisions to the new rules now accommodate their engine. Indeed, the 351 has apparently always been legal but is now limited to a 363 stroke, which happens to exclude my engine - which I just rebuilt this summer...
Ahh... Now your post helps everything make more sense. That's why I asked. And I agree with you that horsepower doesn't guarantee a NORRA win in Pioneer 4x4 or any other class. To finish first you must first finish.

I myself have a 408w so I can understand the potential for frustration with the new rules. I tried to dig up the 2019 and prior rules to see how they were written up but couldn't find anything. I know I saved them somewhere and even printed them out when I raced my F150 back in 2017 but they've gone MIA. I know I had them last year because we moved one vehicle from Stock Turbo UTV to Modified Turbo UTV but I haven't paid much attention to any class we aren't actively racing in.

What would your thoughts be on some sort of restrictor plate? If NORRA is really concerned with a level playing field that might be an option. Of course that's its own can of worms with re-tunes and possible air cleaner clearance issues but that might be a way to get NORRA to allow Ford V8's in excess of 363ci to remain as-is for 2020 and still at least try to offer a level playing field for those running smaller displacements. Like you said... how is NORRA going to know if you are running a 363 or a 427?

Aloha
 

Bro_Gill

Well-Known Member
I think the emphasis is in trying to get vintage vehicles as they raced back then, not as they would be raced now with modern upgrades. Think 200" sixes and 289s.
 

landshark

Well-Known Member
I myself have a 408w so I can understand the potential for frustration with the new rules. I tried to dig up the 2019 and prior rules to see how they were written up but couldn't find anything. I know I saved them somewhere and even printed them out when I raced my F150 back in 2017 but they've gone MIA. I know I had them last year because we moved one vehicle from Stock Turbo UTV to Modified Turbo UTV but I haven't paid much attention to any class we aren't actively racing in.

What would your thoughts be on some sort of restrictor plate?
I would rather run in another class if my motor isn't allowed rather than add complications or unknowns into the equation. Besides I could just remove or modify the restrictor plate after inspection, putting it back on for the finish... which I would never do, just as I would not mis-represent what engine I have at inspection to get around the engine rule.

FYI I attached the 2019 and 2018 NORRA vehicle rules. As I mentioned before, the Pioneer 4x4 class rules were due for some much needed clarification, the rule changes are in the right direction to help attract vintage vehicles racing in the appropriate class AND to help keep the costs down.
 

Attachments

jeff

Moderator
@landshark -- I skimmed through the 67 pages in the 2019 rules and didn't see anything about engine size / type for the Pioneer 4x4.

@Bro_Gill -- When I think "Baja Bronco" I think of the 302 / C4 combo or a 351w as found in Big Oly.

Aloha
 
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